[2021] Devastator is Broken Pt2. Bleed and other buffs not Appling.

Original Post — Direct link

I made this post the other day trying to figure out what is wrong with my devastators damage output:

https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/nwgg6f/devastator_something_feels_off_with_my_damage/

Sometimes i felt like i was doing Normal damage other times it was super weak. "99% of the time super weak"

I did some more testing and maybe figured out how to Temporary fix it. "But its very annoying to do and unrealistic"

Specifically with Moaning winds I was noticing it was doing significantly lower damage. Half the damage if not less then what it should be normally.

Usually what happens is I will play 1 expedition for the first time of the day. My damage numbers are all normal. In general Hitting for ~2M On targets bleeding and ~1M on targets not bleeding with moaning winds. "These numbers are very rough but are good enough to get what im saying"

I then started to notice afterwards No mater what i tried my moaning winds would do Sub 1M damage. No matter if they are bleeding or not. "If they where not bleeding it would be ~500-600K"

Further noticing that even Vulnerable and some of devastator bottom tree nodes like "Deal 20% more damage to targets with less then 30% health left" was also not working all the time. But this was atleast hit or miss. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it dint.

The whole Bleed buffs where not. Once bugged There is Nothing you can do about it. Basically making bleed bonus dmg useless. Only some of the class spesific mods would still work. Like gravity leap 1.5x damage mod.

This Also Effect Earth quake damage too. I lose roughly around 100K damage when bugged.

I discovered yesterday by pure randomness that if i played a Lower Challenge teir First then did a CT15 my Damage would be "Fixed" But Once completing that CT15 and starting a new one up i would then be bugged again. So it is Clear to me that the game backend is not calculating in some bonuses. Bleed, Vulnerable and maybe a few other bonuses.

I would not be suprised if this also happens with Freeze, toxic and Fire. "I know with freeze i had similar hit and miss issue on my techno in the past.

So PCF i really do hope you acknowledge this post. Something is Clearly broken and not being calculated correctly Making Any bleed Bonus and the commander set useless in many ways.

Here is a Short video i did showing this:

https://reddit.com/link/nzmle6/video/9mtemzd858571/player

Before i break down each clip. Please dont take the Numbers Too literal and exact. Sometimes some buffs are not up, other times they are or the enmey might have some debuffs. None of that is the point. it is Clear that NOTHING in the game will half your damage like this. Further this build i have on is not my full build as i was testing things out.

Clip 1: Shows Both With and without Bleed. 800K without and around 1.5M With. Finally 1.8M with the 20% increase damage node below 30% health "Note: i also had a debuff on from weakness". This is ALL Working as intented and what i expect my deva to do. All is Great in this clip. Nothing wrong.

Clip 2: Another Clipping showing all Normal damage. Doing ~3.5M when fully buffed with the NPC having Bleed and the 1.5 damage bonus from my teammate gravity leap. Nothing is wrong and all is working here.

Clip 3: Final clip showing all is working fine. 1.9M damage with Bleed and the 20% node bonus to targets less then 30% health

Clip 4: This Is the first clip you will see when bugged and nothing works. it is the same kind of NPC as in Clip1 But Notice in Clip 4 this NPC has Bleed, Vulnerable and whatever that other icon is next to vulnerable and i only hit for 1M damage??? Either That icon next to vulnerable or vulnerable itself is the only reason it hit for 1M otherwise it would have done the same 800k'ish damage as shown in clip one. Either way you can see clearly all my bleed bonus damage is not working. Possible vulnerable too.

Clip 5: This 2nd and final clip showing clear as day Bleed bonus is not working. NPC is clearly on bleed and i only hit for 869K??? Which if you go back to clip 1 you will see without bleed applied i do roughly 800K in damage.

So in closing Devastator is 100% broken when it comes to its bleed bonuses and possible broken in other bonus such as its class nods or vulnerable. But the main focus is the Bleed Bonus. So the Commander 3pcs bonus set, Tanted Blood and bloody boost all do not work correctly. This also effect your earthquake and you end up loosing roughly around 100K damage.

This Started PRE PATCH. So it is not a new bug.

I will also like to Note a few things that i do not think this is only For bleed bonus and Devastator only. I clearly remember this with freeze on my techno trying to use freeze boost and shatter. I clearly remember that i was getting no increase in damage. This goes a few weeks back. So none of this is a new bug and i have suspicion this is also why borealis set doesnt work all the time and is hit or miss.

here are some name of Mods that might either be fully broken or dont work all the time:

Shatter Tier 3

Tainted Blood Tier 3

Euthaniser Tier 3

Radical Therapy Tier 2

Bloody Boost Tier 2

Freezing boost Tier 2

Bullet Kindling Tier 2

Ashen Boost Tier 2

Captain Hunter Tier 3 * "Possible i have noticed this also doesnt work when im bugged on my devastator"

To be clear, it might depend on the class you're playing on. I just dont know. I dont have the time to test all this out.

All i can say is On my techno i remember Freeze targets not giving me a boost in damage and on my devastator bleed targets not giving me a boost in damage along with Captain hunter not seeming to work.

I will Possible go back and test Euthaniser and Radical therapy on my techno and see if that is broken too or gets broken.

But again the main focus right now is to report how broken Devastator is. This is Why so many feel the devastator class is so weak. because the damn game is taking away half of your damage and 100-150K damage from your earth quake.

I really cant believe how long its been like this. I literally just started playing devastator 2 weeks ago. This must have been broken for a very long time now.

I bet this got broken when they redid their backend for damage mitigation to getting calculated correctly. I bet the same thing is happening here.

My devastator build went from doing 2.5M consistant Moaning winds and 500K+ earth quakes to 500-800k Moaning winds and 300K-400K earth quakes. This is really bad.

All i will say is if this post doesn't get acknowledge from the CM or PCF, This will be the last time i put in any effort like this to report a bug. and you can look at my post history. I do try to help out as much as i can with reporting bugs.

Please Fix this PCF. Its probably the main reason this class is so weak and gets sh*t on by so many.

TLDR: For those that dont want to read everything. Bleed Bonus damage is broken on devastator. That includings the 3pcs commander set aswell as tainted blood and bloody boost. They are not working correctly, not being calculated correctly or just flat out not working at all. Some damage nods might not be working also as well as valnurable. Other Status damage bonuses might also have this issue such as freeze,toxic and burn not giving you the damage increase or not being calculated correctly so you might see a difference but its not correct. Such as using shatter, Eutheniser, etc. Captain hunter might also not be working all the time...

External link →

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Thanks for the extensive post, sorry for the delayed response. I've been reading through both your threads to better understand the full details.

A few questions just to ensure I'm passing on the correct information:

I know you're saying that you feel much weaker than expected, but you mentioned this at the start of the thread:

Sometimes i felt like i was doing Normal damage other times it was super weak. "99% of the time super weak"

If you're feeling weak 99% of the time, then doing "normal" (or increased) damage would in fact be the anomaly. Could you perhaps clarify what you mean here?

A few other people have pointed out in this thread (and I know you've also replied about this), but it's really very very important for us to know the specific circumstances when these issues arise, persist, go away.

A key component here is whether you're playing MP or not and whether you're hosting or whether you're the client. We're continually investigating (and will with the next patch implement some improvements) to connectivity in MP, but we are aware that a high latency can lead to packet loss, which in turn may be related to mods not working or proccing during a session.

I know you've mentioned that the bug "exists" in all play options (Solo/MP Host/MP Client), but we need to ensure that we're differentiating between it existing and it triggering (or being caused).

That brings me to my main question:

- The clips and description you've provided are all great and very informative, so thank you for taking the time to do these. They will help the team know what to look out for and I've already passed them on.

Generally speaking, we are usually able to resolve the issues and bugs that we are able to replicate. Without specific replication steps, however, it can be incredibly difficult to reproduce any bugs being investigated.

With that in mind, are you able to pinpoint the precise circumstances under which the bug triggers?

For example: Is there an exact sequence of events and circumstances under which you can replicate the trigger for this bug every single time?

Something like (and this is purely a very rough example):

Boot Game -> Select Devastator -> Enter Paxian Homestead at CT15 in Solo/MP Host/MP Client -> Notice everything is normal and complete CT15 -> Proceed to Paxian Homestead in CT15 in Solo/MP Host/MP Client -> Notice damage is now different to previous/Notice everything is normal etc.

Additionally, it would be good to have precise information about

Your full build (a clip that passes over your build and skill tree and stats would be helpful). Similar to what /u/ANTDrakko posted here.
Full details on your co-op partners if you're playing in MP during the above sequences. By details I'm referring to what classes your partners are playing and whether they're buffing/debuffing in certain ways.

If you're able to limit the variables between when the bug triggers vs. when it does not, that will help us also replicate the exact circumstances under which it occurs.

If you're able to reproduce this issue entirely without any MP involvement (fully in solo), that would help narrow down our search even more.

Finally, our patch next week will bring with it some MP improvements which may help with rubberbanding/packet loss. If that is at all related to this issue, then knowing whether your reporting problem here continues to persist after the patch will help us a lot.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by vapoorer

Hey, Thanks for responding.

If you're feeling weak 99% of the time, then doing "normal" (or increased) damage would in fact be the anomaly. Could you perhaps clarify what you mean here?

Yes, one can look at it that way too "IF" you dont know the damage you should be doing or what is normal. This is why this issue has not been brought up by many "If any" because they just dont know any better because not many are as invested into the game as i am and or the game makes the math hard to figure out what damage you should do. When a player like myself "I guess you can say what most would call me is a try hard and or no life outriders player" and knows the game very well and have all Min/Max builds on my classes, it is very easy for me to see something is wrong when my moaning winds are only doing 500K-1M Buffed or un buffed.

This Might not even just be a Devastator bleed issue. The more i play and think about it Something is Definitely wrong with the bleed not working thats for sure but also might be a Moaning winds bug too. IDK. So 2 bugs.

Something is breaking with how things are getting calculated with moaning winds or are being totally ignored and not applying to moaning winds on top of the bleed also being messed up.

Moaning winds "I even just tested it on my trickster" is doing far less damage now then before and i main trickster. I have 700h+ in the game.

Could it be?

-Resistance Pierce is not being calculated when it breaks?

-Mods like vulnerable, bleed, toxic, burn or ash damage buffs are also not being calculated do to what you said about some mods not working.

-Some multiplicative and sub category not working and being calculated.

This is where my mind goes. Maybe the first run i play on CT15 "If i get lucky" and everything works great but when i go to play the next expedition the game is not calculating all my bonus when loading in. "Similar to how the damage mitigation bug was not calculating our armor correctly"

Im Not a math guy. But even on my trickster my Temporal blade is 218K damage and moaning winds is 387K by default. Both more are less scale off AP and scale off the same debuff/bonus. Yet at the bases no buffs my T blade does ~1M in damage but my moaning wind only does 500K? How? 125K DAMAGE BUFF ONLY? No way. and ~1M with double damage from mark. I can hit upwards of 4-5M with my T blade with marked targets. 2-2.5M just by itself base. Yet a 396K moaning wind only does 500K? It doesn't make sense.

Then on my devastator. Which has Much less resistance pierce "40% less" then i have on my trickster has more or less the same AP But Hits for nearly the same as my trickster? 530K without bleed and ~1M with bleed?? How? With Bleed my moaning winds should be hitting for ~2M Easy.

A few other people have pointed out in this thread (and I know you've also replied about this), but it's really very very important for us to know the specific circumstances when these issues arise, persist, go away.

A key component here is whether you're playing MP or not and whether you're hosting or whether you're the client. We're continually investigating (and will with the next patch implement some improvements) to connectivity in MP, but we are aware that a high latency can lead to packet loss, which in turn may be related to mods not working or proccing during a session.

I know you've mentioned that the bug "exists" in all play options (Solo/MP Host/MP Client), but we need to ensure that we're differentiating between it existing and it triggering (or being caused).

The thing is there is no Trigger for this bug as far as i can tell. The Bleed bonus just stops working after that lucky first CT15 run.

I'l say it again as best as i can. I might get lucky and start outriders get on my devastator and that very first Expedition i play whether its solo, co'op or co'op with me the host that everything works fine and the bleed bonus is applying correctly to all my damage that i dish out. Also my moaning winds will be working correctly. The next expedition i do no matter if its with that same team i finished the first one with, or im solo and playing my next expedition it just breaks and i lose the bleed bonus or roughly 50% of my damage on moaning winds and some damage on my earth quake.

Again, it is not all the time that i can start the game and that first run everything works fine. which goes back to what i said 99% of the time it just doesn't work correctly.

That brings me to my main question:

- The clips and description you've provided are all great and very informative, so thank you for taking the time to do these. They will help the team know what to look out for and I've already passed them on.

Generally speaking, we are usually able to resolve the issues and bugs that we are able to replicate. Without specific replication steps, however, it can be incredibly difficult to reproduce any bugs being investigated.

With that in mind, are you able to pinpoint the precise circumstances under which the bug triggers?

For example: Is there an exact sequence of events and circumstances under which you can replicate the trigger for this bug every single time?

I wish there was a trigger that i could share to make it easy for you guys :( But from what i can tell All i do is literally just play and either it works or doesnt.

When its working "rare" on that first run it works perfect through out that expedition run.

The next expedition i load into its broken and stays broken. :(

One Night i was playing CT15 as normally with my devastator Co-op,Solo or Co-op host etc and decided to work on some accoladed. So i dropped my CT down to CT1 and completed the CT1 for some ability usage accoladed. I then decided to matchmake for CT15 again and when i i joined and started playing i realized my damage again was "Fixed" and i was doing normal damage. After we finished that CT15 run, the host leader started up another CT15 expedition and my damage broke again.

I have not tested more then 2x dropping my CT1 completing a lower CT and going back to CT15 to see if my damage gets fixed, but the 2 times i did do this My damage was Normal for Only the next CT15 run i did. Then it breaks again.

Your full build (a clip that passes over your build and skill tree and stats would be helpful). Similar to what /u/ANTDrakko posted here.
Full details on your co-op partners if you're playing in MP during the above sequences. By details I'm referring to what classes your partners are playing and whether they're buffing/debuffing in certain ways.

I cannot upload a video in this post. But at the Bottom of the OP i added a video with your user name of my build and what you asked for.

As for partners in MP. I play with just about everyone and every class. I do mostly Pub so whatever teammates the game gives me i play with. I play with crossplay off and only on PC. I do not play with any consistent players. I can promise you i know the difference between someone buffing/debuffing me. its not that.

Closing.

Just want to say English isn't my main language so forgive me if i dont explain things as clear. I will keep an eye on this and see if i can figure anything else out and pot an update when next patch comes out.

But something is off with moaning winds and 2nd with the bleed on devastator.

Either as you first put it this is the "Normal" damage and the high damage i was seeing all other times was the bug or something is clearly broke. For me its clearly broken. Moaning winds is not scaling correctly and or buffs are not applying to it correctly and bleed among possible other mods either stop working or again not being calculated correctly.

I hope whatever it is it gets figured out.

Thanks for the great information, I've made sure that the team has received all of this!

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ANTDrakko

u/thearcan

https://youtu.be/9ZuhothxgNQ

Here is another similar clip I made. The clip doesn't show the build (because I didn't make it as seamless as I did the other one) but it is the same exact skill tree and here is the equipped items:

Equipped:

Seismic Commander Helmet - Ultimate Impaler (T3) / Blood Shock (T1)

Seismic Commander Armor - Palisade (T3) / Earth's Legacy (T1)

Marshal's Waistcloth - Power Assimilation (T3) / Tainted Blood (T3)

Enochian Outrider's Bracers - Ground Crush (T1) / Bloody Boost (T2)

Seismic Commander Footgear - Second Quake (T3) / Extra Quake (T1)

Weapon:

Death Shield - Fortress (T3) / Moaning Winds (T3)

That's a 222,238 first hit that applies Bleed via Blood Shock and then a 346,220 second hit very quickly after.

Something is clearly broken. I can't find any reasonable formula that ends up with that 2nd number based on the first.

Here is another example, with Ground Crush and Fortress removed from the equation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELc61cGw3IA (shows gear and build, no Ground Crush or Fortress)

65982 first hit, which applies bleed. 138,562 second hit.

65,982 x 1.5 x 1.4 = 138,562 . Formula proves out: these equipment mods are added together and then multiplies with the set bonus modifier.

However, when you add in Ground Crush, it would appear that 84,001 "base" damage is actually added AFTER the 150% and 140% bonuses. It sure as heck isn't calculated BEFORE, as the resulting number would be much, much larger.

Something is clearly afoul. As to what, I'm not 100% sure, but hopefully the QA testers and Developers can figure it out. If "base" isn't added before all other multipliers, you may want to chose a different word, at the very least.

Thanks for the great information, I've made sure that the team has received all of this!

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by vapoorer

HEY, u/thearcan

Just wanted to give you an update on this. Post last weeks patch. I will try and put it short and to the point for you.

1) Playing in multiplayer when i am NOT the host "meaning i matchmake and join on a random team" everything from what i can tell is fixed and working correctly again in relation to bonuses/moaning winds. I am now seeing the correct ~2M "give or take" damage numbers i should be seeing with my moaning winds on bleeding targets and the 4.5-5M moaning winds damage when im fully buffed with bleed, Despair etc. *Note below on Despair below\*

So from what i can tell in this scenario all bonuses/mods are working correctly. Including vulnerable, captain hunter.

2) Playing in Multiplayer when I AM the host its still broken. I'm doing half the damage as i should be doing that i listed above. So its clear the bleed is still breaking. However, I noticing something too while playing today which i will need to try and pay more attention too and test more because it wasn't too clear but i noticed on a couple occasions IF i applied the bleed after the 2 gravity leap Despair i would see the 4.5-5M damage. This only happened a few times so dont take it with 100% certain yet but it might be worth your team looking into this being a reason for the issue that its not appling the bleed bonus unless you apply it in a certain order for the host.

3) I did not test fully solo and dont want to assume but im guessing the result will be the same as "2". if i have more time i will test this.

*Despair Mode. It is still broken and requires you to use 2x gravity leaps to apply the 1.5x bonus. Playing with another devastator who also was using Despair which combined giving us the 3.0x bonus we should be getting alone im seeing the correct 7.5M+ damage i should be seeing. "again when im not the host" So this still needs to get fixed so that it applies on the first gravity leap and not just on the 2nd leap.

Note 1: I did not have a chance to test any of the other mods i mentioned in the OP like Euthenizer, Shater, Ash blast etc etc etc I did play on my AP techno build for a bit and some pyro as not the host and all seemed like it was working. Not sure about if im the host. So maybe something to check into or if i have time i will check over the next week.

So in closing....

It seems this patch did fix one side of this issue. For me i usually am the one matchmaking "as in i rarely play as the host" so this made me happy for now that im finally doing the correct damage again. "Minus the Despair bug" So i just want to say thank you for whatever you guys did on this amazing recent patch and i hope you can figure out the other half "As the host" issue for the next future up and coming patch.

Oh and the whole Gravity leap animation getting you stuck for a breif moment after you land thing. I wont say its fixed but it has improved greatly on PC. its still pretty bad if you crossplay with console players after doing a couple of runs with the same team when not the host but when playing with other PC players its tolerable now compared to before it was pretty much unplayable. Hopefully you guys can iron this one out a bit more too.

If you have any questions about any of this please let me know. I did clip a bunch of videos but honestly its just showing damage numbers. I will probably UL some of the clips just to show the FAT BIG BOY damage numbers ive been getting now with my Devastator. Seen a 12M moaning winds the other day on Marshlands. 🤓

Hope you see this so i dont have to make a new thread over it. Let me know.

Thank you for the update, I appreciate it! Our team have been able to reproduce some of these issues I believe, with a few fixes scattered across the next two patches. I'd be keen to hear how far they go to resolving this for you!

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