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I'm not exaggerating, within roughly the past month Starrok was on here teasing the EE and hyping everyone up for substantial changes or at the very least additional content for the Devil mythic path. You can look up the post history if you want.

Now, with literally no warning we find out that all that Devil path stuff? It got cut for some reason.

I mean, the f*ck? There's zero way they didn't know a month out that they weren't going to be able to finish it without running out of money or whatever the excuse is. They literally engaged in deception in order to hype people up for some reason.

Honestly this is so off the wall and leaves such a bad taste in the mouth if real that I'm assuming until we get some official confirmation that this is some sort of bug or the like.

Edit: Apparently they confirmed like 12 hours ago it got cut, and then tried to pin the blame on dataminers for creating 'false expectations' despite continually talking about devil content for a month now. I think I'm done with this game for a while, I know you're not responsible for higher up decisions and marketing Starrok but Owlcat lives and dies on goodwill. It's goodwill that even keeps people recommending these games despite them often being unimaginably buggy, to the point of us working as free beta testers. This sort of thing is literally the burning of community goodwill for a cheap marketing boost in the short term. Hope it was worth the profits.

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about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by GrandConqueror

I also asked regarding the weak sauce heavy armor builds, "Its designed the same way as the tabletop". Like excuse me?!?! f**king Total War Warhammer trilogy ain't a 1:1 recreation of tabletop Warhammer Fantasy yet Creative Assembly still nailed it with improvements to suit the gameplay in a video game. Also they said there was no issue with monk dipping for tank builds and working intended.

This is directly incorrect though - we are aware of the problem with the heavy armor builds (and multiple other problems with class usability) and intend to address it soon. For instance, a new mythic feat with a bonus to armor that scales off your mythic level is already designed and waits for implementation.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by RegalGoat

Not to throw stones at you directly Starrok, but this was flagged as an issue all the way back in beta. And it was already an issue in Kingmaker, which didn't have Mythic features. I am beyond confused as to how there's an effort to fix this now when it should have been caught in the earliest stages of mythic progression design, then caught again pre-release, then caught again immediately postlaunch. And now its 'waiting for implementation' after the launch of 'Enhanced' Edition? I'll be honest, this feels like a supremely slow turnaround on a solution.

Feel free to throw, I'm here to hear you guys out, even if the feedback is sometimes harsh. It's better to make mistakes and later fix them than to do nothing, ignoring feedback. Thanks for your input!

The effort is now, because we're done with a huge amount of issues, mainly bugs, that required a more immediate attention. We finally have our hands more or less untied for looking at problems that aren't exactly bugs, but design flaws or balance issues. We've already started the work, and you may see the first results partly in Enhanced edition, partly in patches before it, and you will see more in the following patches.

It's important to understand that the Enhanced edition is an important yearly milestone, but not in any way the end. I suppose we haven't been clear enough with that. Development process continues, and will do so for a while.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by CWagner

I'm not exaggerating, within roughly the past month Starrok was on here teasing the EE and hyping everyone up for substantial changes or at the very least additional content for the Devil mythic path

Looking through his profile, the earliest thing I see is 3 days ago

Swarm and Devil received some new dialogues and decisions.

Then 2 days ago:

Devil receives new act 5 content in EE.

I must say, I feel like they have a very good point with the datamining driving the hype about devil and NOT Owlcat.

Unless some other account said more about devil or Starrok deleted comments?

I don't think I said much beyond that about the Devil, no. But honestly, it doesn't matter that much, because I fully understand how much it feels as a let down for people after the hype from the datamined texts and it was me who started the false hopes. I'm really sorry about that.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Hey guys.

I absolutely understand your frustration. A large part of it is on me personally to blame, because it was me who many months ago told to delay playing the Devil until the update.

When the unfinished quest was discovered via datamining, it was instantly attributed to my words. As a result, when a chunk of Devil content didn't make it into the final build, while the mythic received multiple updates in dialogues nevertheless, it feels as I've created false expectations for you guys, and I'm very sorry for that.

Unfortunately, the cuts happen. It happens all the time. There are always factors you can't predict, often late in development, which lead to hard choices like this. Cutting the Devil quest was a VERY late and a forced decision, very short before release. It's always very painful and sad, especially for the team who spent the effort. But this time it feels worse, because unfinished files slipped into the build and you guys saw them.

With this situation in mind, it's important to understand three things:

  • Enhanced edition is not the end. It's a big yearly milestone that marks a new chapter in the development cycle, but it doesn't in any way mark the game as 'finished'. I'm sorry if we weren't too clear while communicating this. It's not the last update and not even last big update. The work continues and we expect to address many of your concerns, over time.In fact, we're finally at a point where we can focus our effort less on bugs and more on design flaws, additional QoL changes and balance issues. Hence the work on a set of new mythic feats to address issues such as poison weakness or heavy armor builds that was announced during the AMA.
  • The quest of the Devil was rather far in production when it got cut. A lot of the work has been already made, and it would be a shame to lose that. I can't make commitments yet, but I want to hope as much as you guys that we'll be able to squeeze some resources to deliver it in the nearest months with a separate update.
  • We hear you. We may not always act immediately, and sorry if it feels like that, but we're always seeing all the feedback, processing your reports and always discussing what and how we can do to make the game better or address your concerns. Sometimes we experiment with ideas, and not all of them are always successful. But we believe that trial and error is the way forward and hope that you'll treat that with understanding. You guys are amazing, and we are deeply grateful to you for being so passionate about our game and delivering so much feedback.

Thank you for everything!

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by Baroness_Ayesha

I mean, the f**k? There's zero way they didn't know a month out that they weren't going to be able to finish it without running out of money or whatever the excuse is.​

Oh yes there is. Maybe the publisher decides to not encourage this particular kind of content and tells Owlcat to cut it. Maybe something else happens in the studio and suddenly the budget for this feature is needed elsewhere. Maybe the feature just isn't working out, this quest just isn't coming together in a satisfying way at all, and you'd rather leave it unimplemented than force something mediocre or sub-standard into the game. And any of these things can happen mere days before shipping, especially for a digital update. You can pour your heart into something and try to make it work before another person has to step in and say, "enough".

Things happen during game development. They were likely working on it right up to the final days before realizing it wouldn't work out for any number of reasons. Welcome to the perils of updates to a game, and why developers never talk about things until they're nearly ready to ship anymore. All sorts of things can go wrong.

Is it a bit disappointing? Sure. Is it some kind of elaborate deception designed to Hurt The Fans? Absolutely not.

^ This.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by Steravian

Datamining is one thing but the main problem IMO is that fans simply expected much more late mythic paths content than this.

Remember all the complaining when it was discovered that Golden Dragon would not get anything? While people do not like any features being cut its the more anticipated ones being cut that hurts the most. Fans were NOT compainig about Golden Dragon being so shafted because they love the Golden Dragon far more than the other late mythic paths but because they hoped that ALL these late mythic paths would be greatly expanded.

Whether it was Swarm, Devil, Legend or Golden Dragon that was left with nothing fans would get equally angry.

And now that they learned that while other late mythic paths other than Golden Dragon will get some content...said amount of content falls quite short to what they hoped.

That is why everyone is so angry IMO.

They fear that those mythic paths might have lost their only chance to get truly polished.

Even if not all hope is lost its hardly surprising that they are so angry.

I would like to comment that this is not the only chance for them to be polished. We intend to update the game for a long time and mythic paths are one of the big attention points.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by MrWhite3724

Look, Starrok, most people don’t blame you, it’s actually the opposite. You have been great help this year with open and clear communication.

The problem comes with the name EE mostly. People expect Enchased Edition to substantially improve the game and it didn’t. A couple mystic feats or some broken balance issues aside, act 5 for example is universally understood to lack content. We know the reason, rushed development, Larian Studios love to that too. But their Definitive Edition changed that while this … added photo mode as one of the major features.

Or take Crusade. You specifically collected feedback about it couple of month before, you know it’s a lackluster experience… and nothing is changed.

My point is damage control aside, next time don’t call major patches Enhanced Edition. Call it what it is - a patch.

Again, nothing against you, you are amazing. And I hope you can bring some of the feedback to your marketing team

Results of the Crusade research haven't gone in vain, they were deeply analyzed and gave us a lot of useful information. 'Nothing is changed' is technically incorrect - over the year the game has seen a number of balance tweaks for crusade units (the process is far from over of course), and an added ability to skip fights with weaker enemies.

Rest assured, we're carefully discussing all the feedback we see here and in other threads, and hear the wishes of the community.

about 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by DroningBureaucrats

I'll try to catch you while you're here, a fairly game breaking bug for me has been getting to about level 11 in the roguelike mode of midnight isles and being forced to start over because the boss didn't spawn, locking me in the island with a 'You can't leave until you find the boss and take its treasure' message, only to start a new run, get to ~lvl 11 again and get hit with the same issue.

I love this game and the roguelike mode especially but this really took the wind from my sails, no pun intended. Is this a known issue, any chance of a fix sometime soon?

Thank you for interacting with the community, we appreciate it even if some of us let our frustration run looser than others.

Heya! Thanks for the kind words :)

This bug is already fixed internally and is currently being tested to make sure it's repaired in the existing saves. Will be included with the rest of the changes to the closest patch if all goes well.