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Let me explain how the old and new systems for spontaneous casters (sorcerer, oracle) that merged their spellbooks with mythic spellbooks (lich, angel) worked in the past.

Those classes have a spells per day progression based on this table and a spells known progression based on this table.

In the old system every time you levelled up or gained a mythic rank past the second you would go up a step in both tables and get the spells known and spells per day accordingly. If your level + mythic rank exceeded 20 you would not gain any more spells but your caster level would continue to increase.

Now in the new system the whole thing is far more complicated, unintuitive, and prone to abuse.

The way it works now is that for spells per day (and caster level) you still rank up on each level or mythic rank up according to the combined level and rank, gaining no further spells per day if it exceeds 20.

But for the spells known it is now very different.

On each level up you now use this table without regarding the mythic ranks at all. So even on level 20 with 8 mythic ranks or so you would still get another level 9 spell known.

But on mythic rank-ups you also get spells known. What spells known you get depends on your current level + the mythic rank you rank up to. So you basically insert additional rows of that table dependent on the character level you do your rank-ups. So if you rank up to 4 on level 13 for example you would insert and additional row for 17 between the rows for 13 and 14.

This leads to optimal ways of ranking up if you want to maximize high level spells known. If you for example want the highest number of level 9 spells known it would be best to level and rank up to level 14 and rank 3 respectively, then postpone levelling untill you have taken at least 3 more mythic ranks.

Why? Because this maximizes the number of rows with level 9 spells known that you can insert into your table. At 14+4 you get a row for 18, at 14+5 you get a row for 19 and at 14+6 you get a row for 20. That's 3 additional level 9 spells known. If you chose an oracle mystery that grants you a level 9 mystery spell that is already on the oracle spell list this would actually result in more spells known than there are spells available.

Please, Owlcat. You cannot tell me that this system is what you always intended. I strongly urge you to fix this and restore it to the old version, as I can see absolutely no upsides compared to the consistent and easy to understand old system.

EDIT: Since some people misunderstood. With the new system you get high level spells just as early as before, just inconsistently. Let me demonstrate with an example.

If you were level 10 when you did your rank up to level 3 this is what you would get in the old and new systems:

Old system:

A non merged spellcaster would now have:

CL 10

Spell level 1, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 2, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 3, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 4, 5 spells per day, 2 spells known

Spell level 5, 3 spells per day, 1 spell known

A merged spellcaster would now have:

CL 13

Spell level 1, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 2, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 3, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 4, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 5, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 6, 4 spells per day, 2 spells known

  • all mythic spells known of levels 3-6.

With the new system a merged spellcaster would have:

CL 13

Spell level 1, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 2, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 3, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 4, 6 spells per day, 2 spells known

Spell level 5, 6 spells per day, 2 spells known

Spell level 6, 4 spells per day, 1 spell known

  • all mythic spells known of levels 3-6.

They would still get to cast just as many high level spells per day, but the spells known progression is different and inconsistent. You would however have fewer spells known of high level in the mid game, and more spells known of high level in the endgame than you would have with the old version.

EDITEDIT: For another silly example lets calculate the situation for character that did the waiting untill rank 6 I discribed above would have at max level and mythic rank.

Old Version:

CL 30

Spell level 1, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 2, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 3, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 4, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 5, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 6, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 7, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 8, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 9, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

New Version:

CL 30

Spell level 1, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 2, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 3, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 4, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 5, 6 spells per day, 5 spells known

Spell level 6, 6 spells per day, 6 spells known

Spell level 7, 6 spells per day, 3 spells known

Spell level 8, 6 spells per day, 4 spells known

Spell level 9, 6 spells per day, 6 spells known

Look at the inconsistent distribution of spells known across spell levels. Also in any case you would always have more spells known than the olsd version.

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over 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by cddsy

Would be nice to get confirmation from the Owlcat community rep that they know about and understand this problem they introduced with the merged spellbook "fix".

The old merge system may have been too strong and a nerf warranted, but the new system is clearly flawed and easily abusable

Yeah, we'll be discussing this further. No promises yet, but I do recognize something looks off in the current implementation and will bring it to the team's attention. Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

over 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by Mistum123

Thank you for looking at it but pleaseeeeeeee do not nerf it more!! e.g. removing bonus Oracle spells on Mythic Level Up.

While the old system with a fast progression to a consistent max of Oracle spells known was best, this current system of bonus spells known depending on level-up timing is still manageable. Any further nerf and I would seriously consider not updating while I finish the Angel Oracle run.

To the ground, baby! (c)

over 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by rowleybirkin

Thanks for being so patient and responsive on this issue.

Update on the matter: we have discussed it, and it was agreed that different amount of spells depending on which level you are when going through a mythic rank-up is not how it's intended to be, and counter-intuitive, as well. The plan is that in one of the upcoming patches the formula will be rewritten to be no longer tied to the class level, but preserving more or less the same progression. Descriptions will be updated accordingly.

over 2 years ago - /u/OwlcatStarrok - Direct link

Originally posted by Rhynocoris

Thanks for your reply. But why not just reverse it to how it was before? It was working fine and was uncomplicated.

I explained in the other thread that this fix came as a part of dealing with other, more global bug, which caused multiple other issues including disappearing spell slots, unresponsive spellbook etc.

Reverting it would require a solid rework of the code. There's also the factor that now it works according to the initial design, as it was always supposed to.