Original Post — Direct link
about 3 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by sergeantminor

Hi again, here's a follow-up video to my first video about Petrified Blood. I tried to incorporate as many of the questions and suggestions from the last video as possible into this one. The sound quality still isn't great, but the video is rendered at a higher resolution, and the presentation is a bit better I think.

Part two ended up being twice as long as part one. I tried to include some discussion of actual builds at the end, which people really wanted, but the video still focuses mostly on teaching mechanics. Once again, any feedback is appreciated, and feel free to make suggestions for future content!

Good job on these videos. I look forward to the inevitable third installment once all the enchanments and alternate qualities for the skill are known.

I don't think I've seen anyone else consider the Savage Hit interaction, so I'll confirm here that you are correct on that one.

about 3 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by sergeantminor

Thanks a lot, Mark! This means a lot to me, coming from you. It sounds like you're implying that the enchants and quality bonuses will be pretty interesting, but I'll temper my expectations...

Also, you give me too much credit! You already confirmed the Savage Hit interaction when /u/Ajido inquired about Savage Hits in the megathread.

Huh, so I did. I have no memory of that - it's been a busy time.

Also, technically I only said the third installment would be inevitable after they were known, not that those would be the things that made it inevitable. Lots of other things will probably be known at roughly the same time :P

almost 3 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by sergeantminor

Hi Mark! I'm working on a similar video explaining leech mechanics, and I'm wondering if you can clarify some things for me so that I don't spread misinformation.


First of all, the wording on "increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech" was changed in 3.14 to simply "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech." Does this reflect any actual change in the calculations?

My interpretation of the previous wording was that worked like this, where it figures out your total recovery per second first, then increases that:

T = total recovery per second
M = maximum life
N = number of active leech instances
I = increased total recovery per second

T = M * 0.02 * N * (1 + I)

Does the new wording imply that it's now directly multiplying the 2% recovery per second, before the number of active leech instances is factored in? Given that multiplication is commutative, there doesn't seem to be any practical difference between the two:

R = recovery per second
M = maximum life
I = increased total recovery per second
N = number of active leech instances
T = total recovery per second

R = M * 0.02 * (1 + I)

T = R * N

If there was no meaningful change to the mechanics, what was the reasoning for the change in wording?

Also, it looks like the wording was changed only for life leech and energy shield leech. Is there a reason mana leech didn't get the same change?

Lastly, the wording is unchanged on Warped Timepiece and The Highwayman. They both still modify the "total Recovery per second from Life Leech" stat, which is the one that was recently renamed. Do these items still modify the same stat that everything else does?


Unrelated to that, I want to make sure I'm explaining Strength of Blood correctly. Specifically, with Strength of Blood, is the duration of a leech instance equal to what it would be without Strength of Blood? Does this also mean that "increased Recovery per second from Life Leech" stat will lower the duration of leech instances, even if no recovery is being applied? And that "increased maximum Recovery per Life Leech" will make the duration longer?

The way I've got it written out so far in the script is that leech will continue to recover life until (a) it has recovered life equal to the damage leeched as life from the hit, (b) it has recovered 10% of maximum life, or (c) you reach full [unreserved] life.

If Strength of Blood prevents the life recovery, then based on the above conditions, life leech instances would never expire until full life was reached. I know that's not how it actually works, so does that mean each leech instance has an actual duration that's determined when the instance is created? That expiry is ultimately based on a duration and not on a threshold of recovery?

In any other context the distinction would be irrelevant, but I want to make sure I understand it, both for Strength of Blood specifically and so that I can be as technically correct as possible in the rest of the video.


I know you're probably super busy, and this comment turned out a lot longer than I expected. But if you have time, I'd really appreciate the help!

There is no functional change to those stats. Those descriptions were not supposed to change and will be fixed. We started trying to shorten the wording on those, then undid that, but it looks like some of them didn't get reverted.


Technically, neither of your formulas are exactly accurate to what happens in the game, although the first one is closer. This is because there is no step that multiplies by the number of leech instances - each instance is individual, and gives a specified amount of recovery per second to the player, and the modifications are done to the total amount provided by all instances.

Currently, I don't think there's anything available to players that lets one leech instance have a different amount of recovery per second to another, but the system does no exclude this possibility, so it does not multiply a fixed rate by the number of leech instances - each instance specifies how much recovery per second it applies to the player, and modifications (including a cap) are applied to that total.

Multiplying the way you do is fine as shorthand for calculating the effect of things, since currently all instances will give the same amount of recovery per second, but is not what actually happens.


Regarding strength of blood, each life leech instance is created based on an amount of life it wants to recover (which is limited by a cap which defaults to 10% of max life). Your stats determine the rate at which that leech instance will recover life (amount of recovery per second that leech instance will give), and this is used to determine the duration for that instance. The only things the instance actually has are a rate and a duration - the amount is not stored, it is only used to calculate the duration based on the rate. Neither can be changed after the instance is created. Strength of Blood just cares about the duration, while preventing the recovery from being applied.

So this part:

The way I've got it written out so far in the script is that leech will continue to recover life until (a) it has recovered life equal to the damage leeched as life from the hit, (b) it has recovered 10% of maximum life, or (c) you reach full [unreserved] life.

is entirely wrong. When applying leech, a single value for amount to recover is calculated based on the damage dealt and the cap of 10%, and this value is used in combination with the rate to calculate a duration. The leech instance will last until its duration expires or your unreserved life is filled.

It is not possible for a) or b) from your example to even be calcualted, because it is not possible to say how much life a given leech instance has caused you to gain - the life you actually gain is based on the total from all instances and has had a cap and other modifiers applied between them and you - all the instances are applying to the base value, but the actual life you recover doesn't come from specific individual instances - otherwise when you were leech capped, some of the instances wouldn't be causing recovery (and it would be entirely arbitrary which ones).

almost 3 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by sergeantminor

Okay, I'm nearly done with the script for this video now, and I have a couple more questions.


If I have Ghost Reaver, 1% of damage leeched as life, and 1% of damage leeched as energy shield, does this function the same way as 2% of damage leeched as energy shield? Or does it create two separate instances of energy shield leech? I'm pretty sure it's the first option, but I just want to make absolutely sure.


My understanding of how leech worked prior to 3.14 is that "maximum total recovery per second from life leech" was simply a cap on the "total recovery per second from life leech" value. Now, in 3.14, "maximum total life recovery per second from leech" does not directly cap this value. Instead, it considers life recovery from all types of leech (life, mana, ES), adds them together, and caps the result. (Currently neither mana leech nor ES leech can grant life recovery, but theoretically this could change in the future.)

Strength of Blood grants damage reduction based on "recovery per second from life leech." Prior to 3.14, this was calculated by (a) adding the 2% recovery per second from all active instances into your base "total recovery per second from life leech" value, (b) applying "increased total recovery per second from life leech" modifiers, and (c) applying a cap equal to your "maximum total recovery per second from life leech" value. The final "total recovery per second from life leech" value was the result of all this, and Strength of Blood used this value to compute your damage reduction.

Now, in 3.14, after part (b), this amount is added to the life recovery from mana and ES leech (which so far doesn't exist). The new "maximum total life recovery per second from leech" cap is applied to that sum. Since this no longer directly caps the "total recovery per second from life leech" value, what does this mean for Strength of Blood? Where exactly in this process does Strength of Blood grab your "recovery per second from life leech" and calculate the damage reduction?

I assume the new leech cap still applies to Strength of Blood somehow (otherwise it would be trivial to get damage immunity). However, I'm having trouble reconciling the wording of Strength of Blood with my understanding of the new leech mechanics. Of course, it's possible that I'm making a lot of assumptions here that simply aren't true. Any light you can shine on this would be much appreciated!

If I have Ghost Reaver, 1% of damage leeched as life, and 1% of damage leeched as energy shield, does this function the same way as 2% of damage leeched as energy shield? Or does it create two separate instances of energy shield leech? I'm pretty sure it's the first option, but I just want to make absolutely sure.

They are spearate.

Strength of Blood's description is out of date and will be updated - it cares about total life recovery per second from leech now.

almost 3 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by sergeantminor

How does this interact with Immortal Ambition? While on full life, Immortal Ambition makes life leech instances recover ES instead of life. This means that, while on full life, your "total life recovery per second from leech" is zero (provided that you have no life recovery per second from mana or energy shield leech, which doesn't exist yet). Thus, Strength of Blood grants no damage reduction while on full life if you have Immortal Ambition. Does all that check out?

If it does, then I'm curious how these worked prior to 3.14. Did these two keystones always have this anti-synergy? In other words, prior to 3.14, did Strength of Blood grab your "total recovery per second from life leech" value before or after it was turned into ES recovery by Immortal Ambition? I used this combo back in Heist League, so it would be interesting to find out that it wasn't working as I thought.

I believe previously Strength of Blood would have scaled based on that recovery, but also would have prevented it. Both parts of it now care about Lire Recovery form Leech rather than Recovery from Life Leech, so the current version will not scale on that ES recovery but also will not prevent it applying.