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This section speaks about 10% and 5% limits, these are not life leech limits. These are ES leech limits. So what they could have possible meant is the 5 second limit is also ES leech limit only?

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about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

You are misunderstanding what is being said. The 10% limit here is the same for all leech types, and is an entirely different thing than the maximum total recovery per second from leech (which is 20% of max base for life and mana, and 10% for ES).

This is a separate maximum on the amount of recovery a single instance of leech can grant. This maximum is 10% of the maximum of that resource (life/mana/es) as the base value, and Ascendant Slayer reduces it by 50%, resulting in 5% of the resource maximum.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Rumstein

Ascendant* Slayer reduces it by 50%, right?

whoops, fixed

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by wooser69

Mark I have a question. Life/mana leech is currently capped to recovering 2%/s per instance of leech by default. Is this the case for ES leech as well, or is it 1%/s to fit with the 10%/s maximum?

You are incorrect. Leech instances are not capped to 2% recovery per second - they are always at that rate. A cap would mean they can be at lower rates, which is not the case.

The 2% value is the same for ES as for life and mana. This means that it takes fewer leech instances to reach maximum recovery per second (5 instances of ES leech, compared to 10 for life/mana).

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by welpxD

How does the new "10% max life per leech instance" limit interact with the stat "increased life leeched per second"? Does Slayer's "100% increased life leeched per second" increase the total amount of leech from each instance, or does it shorten the instances?

The maximum amount of recovery is applied to each leech instance. The modifier you're referring to does not apply to the individual instances, but to the total value of recovery you're getting from all instances combined. It has been reorded to make this clearer because this distinction is important - that stat is now described as "x% increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech".

As an example showing all the relevant modifiers, assume you have these stats:

  • 1000 Maximum Life
  • 50% increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech
  • 100% increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech
  • 15% increased Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech
  • 30% of Physical Attack Damage Leeched as Life

From these, we can derive the following extra stats:

  • Your Life Leech Recovery Rate is 20 Life per second (2% of max life per second). Each life leech instance will provide 20 Life per second.
  • Your Maximum Recovery per Life Leech is 150 (15%). The base value of 100 (10% of max life), increased by 50%.
  • Your Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech is 230 (23%). The base value of 200 (20% of max life), increased by 15%.

Note that the later two stats will display in the Character panel as shown in bold here - showing the % value of max life in brackets after the actual value. This way people can see both the actual value, and the relative percentage of max life it represents. The Leech Recovery Rate does not currently display because it's just always 2% per second, there are no modifier stats for it.

You hit me with an Attack, dealing 700 Physical Damage. This causes you to leech 30% of that damage as life; you therefore start to create a leech instance to leech 210 life.

First, this amount is subject to the Maximum Recovery per Life Leech, which, as above, is 150. Therefore this leech instance will only be able to actually leech 150 life.

The Leech Recovery Rate is 20 per second, so it will take 7.5 seconds to leech this much life. The duration of this leech will therefore be 7.5 seconds.

A Leech instance is added to your character for a duration of 7.5 seconds. For that duration, it provides you with 20 life leeched per second.

Your base total Recovery from Life Leech is now 20 life per second, because this is your only instance of life leech. This is increased by 100% by the modifier stat, so your resulting total Recovery from Llife Leech is 40 life per second.

This value is subject to the Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech, which is 230. Since 40 is lower than the cap of 230, nothing happens.

You are now gaining 40 life per second, and assuming no other changes, will continue to do so for 7.5 seconds.


Being a greedy sort, this isn't enough for you, and over the next couple of seconds, you proceed to hit me another 5 times, for between 600 and 700 damage each. As above, this creates another 5 leech instances. Each of these attempts to grant between 180 and 210 life, but all are subject to the Maximum Recovery per Life Leech, which, as above, is 150. So all six leech instances are capped to 150 life.

Because each leech instance tries to recover 150 life, just like the first one, they each get a duration of 7.5 seconds, and provide 20 life per second.

You now have six life leech instances, put together they grant a base total Recovery from Life Leech of 120. This is increased by 100% by the modifier stat, so total Recovery from Life Leech is 240 life per second.

This value is subject to the Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech, which is 230. Since 240 is higher than this, you actually only gain 230 life per second in total.

EDIT: Fixed my the mistake in the maths, thanks to those who noticed and pointed it out for me.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by taggedjc

What about modifiers just to life recovery rate, rather than modifiers to "leech recovery rate"? Are those applied after the leech rate is determined, before applying to the actual life recovered?

Such that if you also had "50% increased life recovery rate" in your first example, you'd gain 60 life per second for those 7.5 seconds, instead of 40 life per second? And in the second case, instead of gaining 230 life per second in total, you'd gain 345 life per second in total?

So to follow on from the example, let's say you also have 10% of Life Regenerated per second, so 100 life per second from regen.

Total recovery is therefore 330 (230 leech + 100 regen), and that number is increased by generic modifiers to life recovery rate.

This is not ideal (recovery rate modifier gets applied separately to more specific things, and thus ends up multiplicative), but before now there were things that prevented changing that, and now we can't change it without adjusting all the stuff that's balanced around how it currently works, so that's not going to change for a while.

EDIT: fixed typo on the regen number

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by loldan79

50% increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech

So this is an entirely new stat right? Because as far as I'm aware what we currently have for leech stats are these 2 stats

  1. increased Life Leeched per second which is becoming increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech
  2. +x% of maximum Life per second to maximum Life Leech rate which is becoming increased Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech

Will there be significant sources of this available?

Yes, the entire concept of capping the amount of recovery a single leech instance can apply is new in 3.6.0.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Etzlo

hey mark, how does this interact with the new soulrend, and essence drain? is the leech on the DoT damage also capped at 10% of max ES/life, or is it a special case due to being a DoT?

There is no leech on DoT damage. Leech is caused by hits.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by jronson

While I’ve got you on the topic of leech Mark, do you know whether modifiers to life leeched per second (now becoming total recovery per second from life leech) affects the amount of damage reflected by The Retch belt? Or do these modifiers only apply to your personal recovery from leech, and the retch only cares about the base leech rate and your number of instances?

Lastly, I’m pretty sure this is the case but just to check - if you are hitting one enemy and have leech which is far in excess of your leech rate cap, will the retch do damage based on the pre-cap or post-cap leeching? I do believe that the leech rate cap does not affect the Retch.

The Retch's damage over time is applied for each instance of leech, at the time that leech instance is created. So only things that apply to each instance of leech can affect it.

The new maximum amount per leech thus does limit it, but the modifiers/maximums that apply to total recovery from all instances do not.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Cronax42

Thanks for the explanation. Does ES leech work the same or does it have its own mechanics?

ES Leech works the same except for the base value of Maximum total Recovery per second from Energy Shield Leech, which is 10% of max ES (Life/Mana use 20%)

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by ZiggyZobby

Can you confirm that

You now have six life leech instances, put together they grant a base total Recovery from Life Leech of 180. This is increased by 100% by the modifier stat, so total Recovery from Llife Leech is 360 life per second.

This value is subject to the Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech, which is 230. Since 360 is higher than this, you actually only gain 230 life per second in total.

this part of Mark's post is wrong and should read instead

You now have six life leech instances, put together they grant a base total Recovery from Life Leech of 180 120. This is increased by 100% by the modifier stat, so total Recovery from Llife Leech is 360 240 life per second.

This value is subject to the Maximum total Recovery per second from Life Leech, which is 230. Since 360 240 is higher than this, you actually only gain 230 life per second in total.

I think he mistakenly applied the 50% increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech which does not belong in this calculation since it doesn't affect the rate in any way.

Please pretty please let me know if he or I made a mistake.

I think he mistakenly applied the 50% increased Maximum Recovery per Life Leech which does not belong in this calculation since it doesn't affect the rate in any way.

No, I just still had 180 in my head from when I decided to add a range to the damage of the hits to keep it reasonable and calculated the (uncapped) life per leech at the low end of that at 180. The correct number is indeed 120.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Dolandlod

Your Life Leech Recovery Rate is 20 Life per second (2% of max life per second). Each life leech instance will provide 20 Life per second.

Where does this even come from? It says it can be derived from the following facts, but I don't see any relation.

All leech instances use a recovery rate that's 2% of the maximum of what they're leeching.