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Hey guys. This is my first season in POE and I've done pretty well considering how much I've had to learn. I am a long time min-maxer in other games and POEs game mechanics and economy have completely enthralled me to obsession.

So I've noticed that the POE Wiki's mechanics are not as in-depth as I would have hoped. Some questions I would ask are things like:

- If you have added % Damage to attacks, is that calculated before or after support gems on that attack?

- Are mods like % Elemental Damage on weapon (e.g. Imperial Bow) applied locally? ( I assume it's global, but then I wonder why Crit Multi explicitly says 'global' when others don't)
- Is Integer Damage on jewels applied to the weapon essentially the same as any integer element on the weapon directly?

Anyway I'm hoping someone out there has a good resource for this stuff.

Thanks

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over 4 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by AngryFace4

See, but then this sort of breaks the "increased" vs "more" rule, because if this is the case then "increased %" on a weapon is technically multiplicative with other sources of "increased %"... no?

The rules is not "all increased modifiers are additive with each other" - as a trivial example, increases to armour are not additive with increases to, say, fire damage, because they are applying to different things. The rule is that all "increased" (and "reduced") modifiers to the same value are additive with each other.

The damage of a weapon item, and the damage of a player using that weapon, are not the same value.

A local stat granting increased damage to a weapon is addtive with other modifiers to the damage of the weapon - multiple such modifiers on the same item stack additively. They are all affecting the base physical damage the weapon has from it's base type. The final result of applying all such modifiers provides the total damage of the weapon, which is displayed above the mods (as noted elsewhere in the thread, if a weapon's physical damage is modified it's value will be displayed in blue to show this, while elemental and chaos damage are colour-coded by damage type, as they are always modified if present, since weapons only have physical damage as a base).

When you equip that weapon, it's total damage becomes the base damage for your attacks. Added damage on your character applies to it, and then increases and reductions on your character can apply to that value, which is not the same value that the local modifiers on the weapon were already applied to, although it does depend on that value from the earlier calculation. Both kinds of "increased" modifiers are additive, not multiplicative with other "increased" modifiers affecting the same value. They fundamentally cannot be additive with each other because they aren't applying to the same thing.

Similarly, increases to damage taken by an enemy are additive with other increases to damage taken, but not with increases to your damage that you try to deal to the enemy, because those are different values - the result of you calculating your damage is mitigated by enemy resistances and armour, and the types of that damage potentially modified, to work out the damage taken value.

over 4 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by AngryFace4

The rule is that all "increased" (and "reduced") modifiers to the same value are additive with each other.

When you use the word 'value' in the above statement, I am inference that 'fire' and 'attack' and 'bow' are examples of separate values that will multiply against each-other after their increase values are individually tabulated additively. Correct me if I am wrong.

That is not correct. Those are restrictions to what kinds of values those modifiers will apply to.

For example, the damage of your Fireball spell is Fire Damage, but not attack damage and not bow damage. "increased fire damage" would apply to it, but "increased attack damage" or "increased bow damage" would not.

But if you also have Burning Arrow, that skill will deal (by default) physical damage and fire damage (converted from physical). The physical damage is attack damage and bow damage, so both those modifiers would apply to that value (additive with each other), but the fire damage modifier would not. The fire damage would be affected by all three, so all three would apply additively to the value of fire damage dealt.

over 4 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by dfiner

Not related, but something I've been curious about lately, I was wondering if you could clear it up Mark.

Assuming the enemy has 100% chance to hit me, if I have unwavering stance (in my specific case via Kaom's roots, but I doubt that matters) and the enemy is blinded, do they have a 50% or 100% chance to hit me (ignoring other variables).

Practically, 100%, but technically neither. You cannot evade, so no chance to evade/chance to hit value ever gets calculated in the first place.

This is distinct from just having no Evasion Rating, which would not prevent you from being able to evade, but would mean the calculated chance to evade would usually be 0%. In that case the enemy chance to hit is 100%, and if they're blinded then that would affect that chance, which inhernetly brings up your chance to evade.

over 4 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Belerophus

it's not always entirely clear if a stat is local or global. And that's why it feels like it breaks the rules.

My rule of thumb for all but unique items for this is:

  1. If the item can have the stat locally then the increased/reduces/added is also local. Example: a white Vaal Regalia has 163 ES. With Unfaltering suffix will have 328-342 ES. The 101-110% increased ES from Unfaltering is added locally to the ES of the base.
  2. If the item cannot have the stat locally then the increased/reduced/added is global. Example: a white Onyx amulet with Unassailable suffix will have its 20-22% increased maximum Energy Shield added globally because a white amulet base cannot provide ES directly.

The only affixes (that I can think of) that do not follow these 2 rules are the Shaper/Elder Gain % of something as Extra something. I don't know why they are not local on weapons and IIRC initially we all thought they would be local. Maybe /u/Mark_GGG can shed some light?

Unique items break this rule on occasion (such as your example) but most of the time follow it as well. Still if you are a new player I would recommend going to the wiki for confirmation regarding uniques.

There is no concept of local damage conversion, and adding it would introduce a huge amount of complexity and unintuitive interactions to the system, and remove part of the point of using conversion mechanics in the first place (modifiers to both types applying - because a theoretical local conversion would be entirely on the weapon and only affected by local modifiers, and the player just gets the resulting totals for each damage type).