Original Post — Direct link

So recently I had a discussion with someone about spell suppression about the order of operations for taking damage. This is important for the fact if it is good for armour builds or not.

So the question is, where in the steps of taking damage comes spell suppression, specifically is it before or after armour.

My guess is that it happens straight after evasion and dodge. As these types are regarded as preventing damage and you can exchange spell suppression for spell dodge with a keystone.

Edit:

Mark_GGG replied to this in an older post: https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/qkpwb0/thoughts_on_transcendence_divine_shield/hiz4yxv/?context=3Suppression is very similar to Block, in that it happens after damage is calculated, and then prevents some of that damage. So those two are after pretty much anything else that affects damage values. Damage prevention from suppression is applied a little before Block (because Suppression occurs before damage is used to calculate stun, and Block occurs afterwards).

Also there is misinformation in this thread, armour does not get calculated of the initial hit.
This link: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Receiving_damage provides information about the order of damage reduction. Elemental resistance get's applied before armour, that is why transcendence is so insanely strong if you can mitigate the down side and the new Jugg node is so hype as it is a mini transcendence without downside (besides playing jugg).
To add on that, the damage taken is modified through every step. The only inconsistent damage taken here is armour, which makes it important where it is in the order of operations. Also flat damage reduction makes a different, but that is so underused at the moment it is not worth really talking about it.

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over 2 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by TheDuriel

on the size of the initial hit

Which spell suppression does not affect.

initial_hit = 100
mitigated_hit = initial_hit * defense_a * defense_b * defense_c...
defense_a = 0.5, spell supression
defense_b = that_silly_armor_function(initial_hit)

Note that armor uses the initial_hit, not the mitigated_hit.

Note that armor uses the initial_hit, not the mitigated_hit.

This is not true and never has been. Any other form of mitigation, such as resistances, that's applied before armour will change how armour interacts with that damage. It does not use the "initial" or unmitigated damage for calculating physical damage reduction.

Often nothing else will mitigate physical damage before armour, so this makes no difference, but it absolutely does not look at some "initial" value that can be different from the value with previous mitigation factored in.

Suppressing damage, however, happens after armour because it's a modifier to damage taken.

over 2 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by NoobHeart

Can you block (Glancing Blows) then Suppress the remaining damage or they are exclusive?

You cannot, but not because they're exclusive, because suppression happens fist.

Damage is suppressed, then stun is calculated, then the remaining damage can be blocked (fully, or partially with something like Glancing Blows)

over 2 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Niroc

That just not true. According to the Q&A, Damage reduction from Armour is calculated after other forms of damage reduction, after elemental resistances, based off the remaining hit.

Edit: More info.

Slight correction. Armour is not calculated before other forms of damage reduction. Reduced and Less damage taken modifiers are applied "after" armour's damage reduction is calculated. Sources of "additional Physical Damage Reduction" are added to the effect of armour's phyiscal damage reduction.

Additional sources of "reduced -x- damage taken" are applied additively to the effect of Armour.

Hopefully by now, I have all of the wording correct.

Additional sources of "reduced -x- damage taken" are applied additively to the effect of Armour.

Not quite - you are confusing "[type] Damage Reduction" with "reduced [type] Damage taken" (which you had already correctly stated applies after armour, as a modifier to damage taken).

Armour applies "Damage Reduction" to the damage types it mitigates - usually this is physical, so "Physical Damage Reduction" Other sources of additional "Physical Damage Reduction" are additive with the Physical Damage Reduction calculated from armour. I don't believe there are currently any modifiers granting "additional [type] Damage Reduction" for types other than physical, but they would add to any damage reduction to that type provided by armour (if any - or add to 0 if armour doesn't apply to that type). Armour doesn't mitigate damage over time, but "Damage Reduction" does, so sources of additional Physical Damage Reduction mitigate physical damage over time.

"reduced [type] damage taken" is just a generic modifier to "damage taken" - which is inhernetly the post-mitigation value. All things modifying "damage taken", be they less/reduced/more/increased/-/+ apply after resistances & armour.

Yes, the terminology between "reduced damage taken" and "damage reduction" is unfortunately similar. Internal efforts to try to rename "damage reduction" to something else have so far not worked out for various reasons.


It hasn't been asked yet but I suspect someone will bring this up now I've talked about armour applying to things other than physical - in cases where armour mitigates multiple types of damage, it does so separately for each type it mitigates. If you make armour apply to lightning damage as well as physical damage, then take a hit containing both physical and lightning damage, then armour will calculate Physical Damage Reduction based on comparing the physical damage to armour, and apply that only to the physical damage, and will calculate Lightning Damage Reduction based on comparing the lightning damage to armour, and apply that only to the lightning damage.

over 2 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Niroc

Ah, I forgot to remove that part about reduced damage taken applying additively in my flurry of edits.

Quick question then. The reworked Unbreakable + Transcendence. Would you get only 8%, 100%, or more 108% of armour applied to elemental damage?

100%. Trancendence just has the boolean property that armour applies to that damage, saying that 8% of armour applies is effectively redundant - that 8% was already applying, as was the rest of it.

over 2 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by reki

Along this line of thought: based on this order of operation, "% Physical Damage Taken as [type]" wouldn't have synergy with Transcendance though, right? Because we don't start taking damage (and thus having conversion) until after Armour mitigation is calculated?

Modifiers which allow you to take damage of one type as a different type instead apply pre-mitigation. They wouldn't really do much otherwise.

Those aren't a modifier to damage taken, they're changing the process of how you take damage, which includes mitigating it in all forms.