Elemental Penetration should apply to Damage Over Time as well. With so many different forms of elemental penetration available, the fact this isn't used in DoT calculations is very bizarre. A simple change like this can go a long way toward alleviating the major issues presented with the Elemental Damage Over Time issues other posters have brought up in the wake of EE/EO's changes.
External link →This is not a "simple change". This fundamentally cannot happen without completely rewriting everything to do with taking damage over time from the ground up to be massively less efficient.
Would a support that states "Damage over time for supported skills ignore % of target elemental resistances" be as difficult to implement?
Yes. That is the same thing.
Fundamentally, damage-over-time is calculated by the source only as a value of pre-mitigation damage-per-second to try to deal. That is applied to the target, which adds to a total value for damage per second they're taking of that type, and all mitigation and damage taking happens to the total, not to individual sources. Nothing about the source of a specific effect can do anything other than change the calculation of that initial, pre-mitigation dps value. Resistances are mitigation, so apply on the defender side to all damage-over-time of the appropriate type - different sources of damage over time can't be resisted differently, because this process isn't done to and has no concept of individual sources.
What about "Enemies affected by Damage over Time from supported skills have -% to Elemental Resistance(s)"? Similar to Combustion effect, but for DoT, I'd even word it like that to specifically buff non-ailment DoT skills: "Enemies affected by non-Ailment Damage over Time from supported skills have -x% to Resistance matching Damage over Time type". Although its long wording indeed, but would be nice to have something like Combustion but for all non-ailment DoT skills:)
P.S. I already see it cannot work with physical DoT as there is no resistance to that, but that was just a quick idea anyway:)
Doing that would be mechanically possible*, but prohibitively complicated and potentially a maintenance nightmare, because there is no unified code path that all sources of damage over time go through that this could be put into - different damage over time effects are applied in different ways so skills can do different things.
Individual DoT skills could easily apply such a resistance-penalising effect to things affected by their specific DoT effect, but making it generic to all skills would be harder (but still possible).
*with some finagling of wording - it would only be able to depend on them having the DoT on them, not being affected by it or actually taking the damage
I'd be willing to bet basing the dot off the actual damage dealt and ignoring resistances for dot damage is massively more efficient.
"basing the dot off the actual damage dealt" only makes sense for ailments, and leads to double-dipping. Ignoring resistances for DoT would be a minor efficiency gain at best - there's still a bunch of other calculations that have to happen for damage taken, this is only removing a single step from a multi-step process (resistances, modifiers to type of damage taken as, modifiers to damage taken, modifiers to where damage is taken from, etc), and would lead to obviously wrong interactions - if you're taking fire damage, and do something that raises your fire resistance, that's obviously supposed to work, but wouldn't be able to under that system.
Will this be coming with PoE2 perhaps?
No.
Mark, completely unrelated but, how does blocking damage and recovery on block work on a single gameserver tick?
Let's say I take 50 hits, and manage to block 40 in a single game tick.
a) Do I take the damage of the 10 added up and then the recovery from the 40 I block?
b) Do I take the recovery first and then the damage from the 10 all together?
c) or do I take some hits, then some recovery, then some hits, randomly ordered?
My money's on a) or b) because I can survive esh's stationary ball lightnings with block just fine, but if they start stacking it really seems like all the unblocked damage received in the same tick is added together and dealt at the same time, leaving me with no time to recover my HP from blocked hits that may have happened
c), but order is not random (in some cases it is arbitrary, but it's never random). Each hit is processed separately, and that includes stuff you do for blocking it if that hit was blocked. There is no "grouping" of hits - each is separate and sequential.
Can you please clarify why new Elemental Overload can't technically affect DoT from skills like Vortex, but can affect DoT from Ignite?
This is a technical limitation of how we're able to detect the condition and apply the bonus - it's applied as a conditional damage stat, which fundamentally are a part of hit calculation, so can only apply to hits (and damaging ailments, which are part of a hit and calculated with it). I came up with a potential long-term plan for a new system that would allow the keystone to be implemented in a different way that could apply to all damage, but it's complicated and wasn't feasible for this patch. It's something I'd like to do eventually, as I think that system would unlock some other potentially cool stuff, but at this point isn't even a complete plan, so not something to expect anytime soon.
oh, hi Mark
You're tearing me apart, /u/_eLight_!
Fascinating insight, thanks. That makes sense from an efficiency perspective while still having the flexibility to create effects like Blackflame.
So hypothetically, it would be impossible to add an effect to the game that said something like "Enemies take damage from your Poisons as if inflicted with twice as many Withered debuffs" because there would be no way to avoid that effect applying to all sources of Chaos DoT. But the generalized (and much stronger) effect "Enemies Poisoned by you take damage as if inflicted with twice as many Withered debuffs" would work with the current game engine.
Broadly yes. It wouldn't be able to be about number of withered debuffs, as individual debuffs can have modified effects, but it could e.g. make Withered have 100% increased effect on enemies poisoned by you, or similar.
Mark I also have a completely unrelated question for you.
Quick yes or know because I have a general understanding just want the official clarification before plan my build around it.
Lethe shade. Does taking a new instance of dot say poison after being poison count as starting to take dot damage if you're already poisoned? A new stack is added so technically it's a start of a new instance.
Basically what I'm cooling with is self poison to refresh the cooldown on lethe shade every second.
I assume it's going to be a no because you're already taking damage and this is more of a continuing to take dot rather then starting to take dot but I can't find anything 100% and would appreciate the clarification.
Thank you ahead of time.
Changing how much damage over time you're taking is not starting to take damage over time.
Unless it's going from taking no damage over time to taking damage over time, right?
For example, if you have the new passive on Trickster ("Every 10 seconds, take no Damage over Time for 5 seconds.") and you take a very long-duration damage over time effect (say, an ignite that lasts for more than 5 seconds), and then partway through that duration the passive kicked in stopping you from taking damage over time, you would be considered starting to take damage over time after those five seconds are up (assuming the ignite still has time remaining).
Yes. Changing from not taking damage over time to taking damage over time is starting to take damage over time.
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