Original Post — Direct link

I’m feeling frustrated with this bank rework post. So feel free to disregard as you wish.

It’s amazing, it’s everything we’ve been asking for months. It’s still work in progress. There’s a lot of work in progress updates, shelved ideas and ideas in forum. There’s going to be, it’s a creative game, always changing. This is great.

But when you announce updates. We take them as updates. This is what IS coming. If you later come to difficulty and can’t input them, that leads to disappointment. I’ll use the ED3 QOL updates as a prime example.

We want to see what you’re working on, but events like gameblast show this so well. A newspost is not the place for this.

I want to get onboard with the bank rework. I want to get onboard with the comp cape rework. But “News” isn’t the place for this, dev blog tagged or not.

Keep it up with the updates, the creativity and quality of the updates are fantastic. We have an amazing game. Just stop toying with our emotions acting like works in progress will definitely happen, when there’s actually a very high chance they won’t, or they take 10 times as long as you thought.

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over 5 years ago - /u/Shaunyowns - Direct link

Alrighty,

So we wouldn't have announced this unless we had absolute buy in this is happening (we made this mistake back in 2016 with the Bank Rework and technical hurdles)

I'll quote what /u/JagexKelpie emailed us about the project

The project has now reached a stage that we are confident that there will be no big unresolvable technical issues that will prevent this project from being released.

We're now at that point where no technical issues will stop us and no matter what it's happening.

This isn't toying with you, and it will happen.

over 5 years ago - /u/Shaunyowns - Direct link

Originally posted by TSMSelenaGomez

is the bank rework the summer update

It is not

over 5 years ago - /u/JagexMeadows - Direct link

Originally posted by TSMSelenaGomez

damn, its gonna be an insane summer then

Yes it is. ;)

over 5 years ago - /u/JagexOrion - Direct link

Originally posted by BobDaBilda

Obviously they've replied directly, and you've got your answer, but I'll also point out that they're already following your advice, before you gave it.

Notice that lately, they haven't talked about something unless it's a "small", or "small to medium" sized project, that's nearly complete, or in QA. They also seem to have changed QA Policies internally (from what, and to what? I don't know, but they've definitely released with less weird, but obvious bugs recently).

Everything else they've said over the last, I dunno, 3-6 months, maybe longer? has been "We're excited for a new bit of content that 'team name' is working on", or "New projects are incoming, and they're awesome". Things along those lines. Occasionally they'll be a tad more specific, and say "a new quest", but not give anything more direct than that.

They've (Shauny has, I guess I could say) gotten better at avoiding asking questions on streams that just plain can't be answered. If he sees one being spammed about, and knows it can't be talked about, he'll either directly approach it, without asking others on the couch, "We know you're concerned about X, and we are too, but there's nothing we can say on that front, sorry" or "We will have a dev blog in (Y amount of time), and that'll explain some of our plans and reasoning".

I see this as a show of maturity from Jagex as a company, as they're setting more strict, and necessary in my opinion, boundaries about what can be talked about externally. It's like how little kids will whine that they're hungry every few minutes, even though they can see / smell their parents cooking dinner, and how adults will just have another conversation to distract themselves, while they salivate at the smell of the yummy food they know they'll have soon.

Communications is important, and they're taking that to heart, along with the other changes that they have been talking about for a while now. There's less "talk, then try", and more "do, then show". They're slowly, quietly catching up with their backlog, and trying their hardest not to call attention to it (other than occasional hints from /u/JagexOsborne that he's glad they're finally able to do so -- Sorry Dave, but I pay too much attention not to notice), because they don't want to get to a point where there's no backlog, and have the community go "Here's a new backlog, whether you like it or not". I think they want to have some level of control over where they go in the future, and have maybe felt like the demands of the promises they have already made acting like an anchor. "You made a whole new quest writing system, a bunch of quests, new content, but blah blah blah is still broken, and you proooooomised you'd fix it!" If they can just get as many of those promises from the "made" column to the "kept" column, without making any more promises, they can get to doing more with the back end of how they make new content, which means less content in the short run, but way more content in the long run. Think 6-8 months of one, maybe 2 teams in Jagex not making more Elite Dungeon-esque content, but making it possible to make content at that scale, in a simpler (from a dev point of view), quicker way. So instead of taking 6 weeks of dev, maybe it takes 4 now. Then over the course of 3 months, you get 3 pieces of content instead of 2, and that will continue throughout the future development of Runescape, not just for THAT team, but for EVERY team. In the short term, you spend 6 months getting 1 piece of visible content from a team, and a bunch of talk about how it changes the workflow for them, and others, but then in the long run, you get more quests, more dungeons, more opportunities to explore Gielinor, and other worlds. Quest-backend means more Quests. The "Graphic Novel Style Cutscenes" (I haven't seen them, because I haven't been able to do Desperate Times just yet, but that's how they were described on the stream) means easier to produce, story content, whether quest or non-quest. The ( /u/JagexOrion ) procedurally generated content means more content. Every time they make a new one of these systems (and importantly, USE THEM in future content, since it doesn't matter at all if they don't use it), they make their dev process easier, and then it's just about thinking up, and telling the story, rather than developing, and redeveloping the same systems in different ways. Incremental improvements aside, they won't have to touch most of these systems again to make the next quest, graphic novel style cutscene, or /u/JagexOrion procedurally generated puzzle. They'll just use them.

More content is what we're all asking for, in one way or another. They're making that possible, not only by hiring new developers, QA people, etc., but by making their workflows easier. That way, if they have a big quest planned, it takes one team to do, not 3. Those other 2 teams get to fix whatever Reddit / Twitter / the forums think are "Stupid OP, and broken af" or whatever.

Also, I'll point out, all of what I'm saying is from an outside perspective, with no confirmation from Jagex that any of what I think / have expressed here is correct. My opinions are my own, and may not represent the reality of the internal workings of Jagex. This is just what I gather, and how I interpret it, from watching streams, and paying attention to the media they do put out.

Sorry, this got a lot longer than I intended.

TL;DR: They're listening. To you, to me, to everyone. Not all of their progress is going to be visible in the short term, but it will make their more visible progress in the future that much faster. They're thinking about the long game, and making it healthy, and us happy, rather than just appeasing us in the short term.

Holy crap can we bestof this?

What a comment, thank you.

over 5 years ago - /u/darkhearted_raven - Direct link

Originally posted by BobDaBilda

Obviously they've replied directly, and you've got your answer, but I'll also point out that they're already following your advice, before you gave it.

Notice that lately, they haven't talked about something unless it's a "small", or "small to medium" sized project, that's nearly complete, or in QA. They also seem to have changed QA Policies internally (from what, and to what? I don't know, but they've definitely released with less weird, but obvious bugs recently).

Everything else they've said over the last, I dunno, 3-6 months, maybe longer? has been "We're excited for a new bit of content that 'team name' is working on", or "New projects are incoming, and they're awesome". Things along those lines. Occasionally they'll be a tad more specific, and say "a new quest", but not give anything more direct than that.

They've (Shauny has, I guess I could say) gotten better at avoiding asking questions on streams that just plain can't be answered. If he sees one being spammed about, and knows it can't be talked about, he'll either directly approach it, without asking others on the couch, "We know you're concerned about X, and we are too, but there's nothing we can say on that front, sorry" or "We will have a dev blog in (Y amount of time), and that'll explain some of our plans and reasoning".

I see this as a show of maturity from Jagex as a company, as they're setting more strict, and necessary in my opinion, boundaries about what can be talked about externally. It's like how little kids will whine that they're hungry every few minutes, even though they can see / smell their parents cooking dinner, and how adults will just have another conversation to distract themselves, while they salivate at the smell of the yummy food they know they'll have soon.

Communications is important, and they're taking that to heart, along with the other changes that they have been talking about for a while now. There's less "talk, then try", and more "do, then show". They're slowly, quietly catching up with their backlog, and trying their hardest not to call attention to it (other than occasional hints from /u/JagexOsborne that he's glad they're finally able to do so -- Sorry Dave, but I pay too much attention not to notice), because they don't want to get to a point where there's no backlog, and have the community go "Here's a new backlog, whether you like it or not". I think they want to have some level of control over where they go in the future, and have maybe felt like the demands of the promises they have already made acting like an anchor. "You made a whole new quest writing system, a bunch of quests, new content, but blah blah blah is still broken, and you proooooomised you'd fix it!" If they can just get as many of those promises from the "made" column to the "kept" column, without making any more promises, they can get to doing more with the back end of how they make new content, which means less content in the short run, but way more content in the long run. Think 6-8 months of one, maybe 2 teams in Jagex not making more Elite Dungeon-esque content, but making it possible to make content at that scale, in a simpler (from a dev point of view), quicker way. So instead of taking 6 weeks of dev, maybe it takes 4 now. Then over the course of 3 months, you get 3 pieces of content instead of 2, and that will continue throughout the future development of Runescape, not just for THAT team, but for EVERY team. In the short term, you spend 6 months getting 1 piece of visible content from a team, and a bunch of talk about how it changes the workflow for them, and others, but then in the long run, you get more quests, more dungeons, more opportunities to explore Gielinor, and other worlds. Quest-backend means more Quests. The "Graphic Novel Style Cutscenes" (I haven't seen them, because I haven't been able to do Desperate Times just yet, but that's how they were described on the stream) means easier to produce, story content, whether quest or non-quest. The ( /u/JagexOrion ) procedurally generated content means more content. Every time they make a new one of these systems (and importantly, USE THEM in future content, since it doesn't matter at all if they don't use it), they make their dev process easier, and then it's just about thinking up, and telling the story, rather than developing, and redeveloping the same systems in different ways. Incremental improvements aside, they won't have to touch most of these systems again to make the next quest, graphic novel style cutscene, or /u/JagexOrion procedurally generated puzzle. They'll just use them.

More content is what we're all asking for, in one way or another. They're making that possible, not only by hiring new developers, QA people, etc., but by making their workflows easier. That way, if they have a big quest planned, it takes one team to do, not 3. Those other 2 teams get to fix whatever Reddit / Twitter / the forums think are "Stupid OP, and broken af" or whatever.

Also, I'll point out, all of what I'm saying is from an outside perspective, with no confirmation from Jagex that any of what I think / have expressed here is correct. My opinions are my own, and may not represent the reality of the internal workings of Jagex. This is just what I gather, and how I interpret it, from watching streams, and paying attention to the media they do put out.

Sorry, this got a lot longer than I intended.

TL;DR: They're listening. To you, to me, to everyone. Not all of their progress is going to be visible in the short term, but it will make their more visible progress in the future that much faster. They're thinking about the long game, and making it healthy, and us happy, rather than just appeasing us in the short term.

This is a really good comment that captures a lot of what we're trying to do right now. I couldn't have put it any better myself.

over 5 years ago - /u/mod_sova - Direct link

Originally posted by BobDaBilda

Obviously they've replied directly, and you've got your answer, but I'll also point out that they're already following your advice, before you gave it.

Notice that lately, they haven't talked about something unless it's a "small", or "small to medium" sized project, that's nearly complete, or in QA. They also seem to have changed QA Policies internally (from what, and to what? I don't know, but they've definitely released with less weird, but obvious bugs recently).

Everything else they've said over the last, I dunno, 3-6 months, maybe longer? has been "We're excited for a new bit of content that 'team name' is working on", or "New projects are incoming, and they're awesome". Things along those lines. Occasionally they'll be a tad more specific, and say "a new quest", but not give anything more direct than that.

They've (Shauny has, I guess I could say) gotten better at avoiding asking questions on streams that just plain can't be answered. If he sees one being spammed about, and knows it can't be talked about, he'll either directly approach it, without asking others on the couch, "We know you're concerned about X, and we are too, but there's nothing we can say on that front, sorry" or "We will have a dev blog in (Y amount of time), and that'll explain some of our plans and reasoning".

I see this as a show of maturity from Jagex as a company, as they're setting more strict, and necessary in my opinion, boundaries about what can be talked about externally. It's like how little kids will whine that they're hungry every few minutes, even though they can see / smell their parents cooking dinner, and how adults will just have another conversation to distract themselves, while they salivate at the smell of the yummy food they know they'll have soon.

Communications is important, and they're taking that to heart, along with the other changes that they have been talking about for a while now. There's less "talk, then try", and more "do, then show". They're slowly, quietly catching up with their backlog, and trying their hardest not to call attention to it (other than occasional hints from /u/JagexOsborne that he's glad they're finally able to do so -- Sorry Dave, but I pay too much attention not to notice), because they don't want to get to a point where there's no backlog, and have the community go "Here's a new backlog, whether you like it or not". I think they want to have some level of control over where they go in the future, and have maybe felt like the demands of the promises they have already made acting like an anchor. "You made a whole new quest writing system, a bunch of quests, new content, but blah blah blah is still broken, and you proooooomised you'd fix it!" If they can just get as many of those promises from the "made" column to the "kept" column, without making any more promises, they can get to doing more with the back end of how they make new content, which means less content in the short run, but way more content in the long run. Think 6-8 months of one, maybe 2 teams in Jagex not making more Elite Dungeon-esque content, but making it possible to make content at that scale, in a simpler (from a dev point of view), quicker way. So instead of taking 6 weeks of dev, maybe it takes 4 now. Then over the course of 3 months, you get 3 pieces of content instead of 2, and that will continue throughout the future development of Runescape, not just for THAT team, but for EVERY team. In the short term, you spend 6 months getting 1 piece of visible content from a team, and a bunch of talk about how it changes the workflow for them, and others, but then in the long run, you get more quests, more dungeons, more opportunities to explore Gielinor, and other worlds. Quest-backend means more Quests. The "Graphic Novel Style Cutscenes" (I haven't seen them, because I haven't been able to do Desperate Times just yet, but that's how they were described on the stream) means easier to produce, story content, whether quest or non-quest. The ( /u/JagexOrion ) procedurally generated content means more content. Every time they make a new one of these systems (and importantly, USE THEM in future content, since it doesn't matter at all if they don't use it), they make their dev process easier, and then it's just about thinking up, and telling the story, rather than developing, and redeveloping the same systems in different ways. Incremental improvements aside, they won't have to touch most of these systems again to make the next quest, graphic novel style cutscene, or /u/JagexOrion procedurally generated puzzle. They'll just use them.

More content is what we're all asking for, in one way or another. They're making that possible, not only by hiring new developers, QA people, etc., but by making their workflows easier. That way, if they have a big quest planned, it takes one team to do, not 3. Those other 2 teams get to fix whatever Reddit / Twitter / the forums think are "Stupid OP, and broken af" or whatever.

Also, I'll point out, all of what I'm saying is from an outside perspective, with no confirmation from Jagex that any of what I think / have expressed here is correct. My opinions are my own, and may not represent the reality of the internal workings of Jagex. This is just what I gather, and how I interpret it, from watching streams, and paying attention to the media they do put out.

Sorry, this got a lot longer than I intended.

TL;DR: They're listening. To you, to me, to everyone. Not all of their progress is going to be visible in the short term, but it will make their more visible progress in the future that much faster. They're thinking about the long game, and making it healthy, and us happy, rather than just appeasing us in the short term.

<3

We also made a (not randomly generated) system to handle populating dungeons, and running the behaviors of the denizens too. So yeah, you found the nail and the head.