Original Post — Direct link

As you saw in our latest This Week In RuneScape, we are looking to make adjustments to both the Fractured Staff of Armadyl (FSOA) and Animate Dead – but before we do, we want to hear from YOU about your thoughts on our proposal.

This Is About Feedback

We’re opening this discussion today, weeks before any potential release, in order to hear your thoughts on our proposed changes and get your feedback.

Nothing of what you are about to read is set in stone. This is an important change for us to make, but it’s equally important we make these changes in the right time and in the right way.

Constructive, detailed comments will help us understand all perspectives as best as possible to help inform where we go from here. While balancing changes will always have an element of necessity, we want have your perspective in mind when we make them. With that said, let's get to the changes.

Animate Dead

In it's current state, Animate Dead is unfortunately just performing too well with very little downside. In particular, it's overly synergistic with other sources of damage reduction and creates a scenario where lots of low-damage hits can no longer threaten players. That being said, we do like that Animated Dead has increased the viability of tank armor and allowed more players to get into PvM.

With that in mind, our goal is to make a conservative change to Animate Dead - we want to balance it out while preserving that tanky experience many of you love. Here's what we're looking to do:

  • Cannot reduce damage by more than 60% (was 75%)
  • Damage reduction now uses 25% of defence level (was 33%)
  • Now only works vs core damage types (melee, magic, ranged)
    • E.g. Will not work vs typeless damage, reflect etc

The biggest of these changes we see is the move towards core damage types.

Commonly, PvM mechanics where we want players to show some level of skill to proceed in a fight will use non-core damage types and as such aren't affected by damage reducing prayers, requiring players to get the mechanic right or suffer some form of punishment. Animate Dead previously excelled in letting players just ignore mechanics, such as Zamorak's Rune of Destruction attack. As such, Animate Dead was creating a large amount of design debt that was having to be considered when creating new encounters, limiting our ability to create exciting mechanics or combat for you as players that Animate Dead could disregard entirely.

Despite this shift, the resulting damage mitigation changes to Animate Dead are fairly small. Here’s a table for comparison to outline the impact to a similar geared and levelled player:

LIVE POST CHANGES
Player has Seasinger Hood, Legs, Top, 99 Defence. Animate Dead value: 240 Player has Seasinger Hood, Legs, Top, 99 Defence. Animate Dead value: 213
1000 Damage vs above player with NO animate dead850 damage dealt to player 1000 Damage vs above player with NO animate dead850 damage dealt to player
1000 Damage vs above player with animate dead.610 damage dealt to player 1000 Damage vs above player with animate dead.637 damage dealt to player
1000 Damage vs above player with animate dead & protection prayer185 damage dealt to player 1000 Damage vs above player with animate dead & protection prayer255 damage dealt to player
500 Damage vs above player with NO animate dead425 damage dealt to player 500 Damage vs above player with NO animate dead425 damage dealt to player
500 Damage vs above player with animate dead.185 damage dealt to player 500 Damage vs above player with animate dead.255 damage dealt to player
500 Damage vs above player with animate dead & protection prayer53 damage dealt to player 500 Damage vs above player with animate dead & protection prayer127 damage dealt to player

Fractured Staff of Armadyl (FSOA)

Since the release of FSOA, the weapon has been bringing death and destruction to anything that gets in its path (both monsters and runes!) assuming you hit the RNG rolls enough. When it comes to the FSOA we've identified a number of problems:

  • The auto attack problem:
    • Being auto based means the weapon has an excessively high upkeep cost, it feels bad to use the special, particularly against lower-end bosses.
    • The damage value is of individual shots from the spec is hard to adjust due to the combat system just passing auto-attack through for the staff.
  • The weapon is putting a big design restriction on critical strike as the recursive nature of the special attack means that any future unlocks that affect critical strike push the special close to going 'infinite'.
  • The damage output of the staff is hitting the limits of what we're comfortable with, and far beyond what we've previously introduced, meaning we're less able to create new rewarding upgrades for magic players.

The changes we have in mind are focused on the FSOA's Special Attack:

  • Special attack effect no longer does autoattack damage but instead the extra hit is passed through as an ability
    • This means there is no longer the cost of runes for each extra crit
    • A projectile is no longer sent from the player to the target as expected from an auto-attack
    • Instead, the green lightning effect from the special attack cast animation will play on the target when hit with an extra hit from a successful proc
  • Special attack effect can no longer trigger off of itself removing the recursive nature
  • Special attack effect now deals 60-120% ability damage with each hit.
  • AVG 90% ability damage per fire.

What this means is the effective damage of the FSOA will be moved to a balanced place where it performs as a weapon of that level should (as a result of losing it’s recursive nature) while also becoming less of a Rune-eating fiend!

While this does reduce the power of the FSOA from where it is today, this makes the ability much easier for us to control and balance - and ultimately means we'll be able to introduce more upgrades that synergise with magic, critical strike and the staff that we couldn’t do without addressing this first. Bringing other weapons up to this level is unfortunately not an option as it would introduce the same design problems for other styles, and ultimately, create less exciting options for future content in those areas too.

Now We Want To Hear From You!

Now it’s back to you – the whole purpose of this post is about gathering feedback and getting your input on how you feel about where we’re going with these changes.

While balancing over-performant weapons and spells is important – as we’ve mentioned, it’s even restricting design choices on doing even cooler things for future encounters or other Magic upgrades – this comes with an impact and we want to understand your perspectives on it too.

I’m here with u/JagexSponge today to chat to you all for the next few hours, and we’ll also be sporadically responding on Friday to continue the conversation.

Please keep it constructive to help us get the best insight into your thoughts and – with that in mind - fire away ‘Scapers!

External link →
over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

First.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Rarycaris

Will the new FSOA hits be affected by Sunshine?

Will the new FSOA hits be affected by Sunshine?

Yep, it'll be affected like any other standard ability.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Wiz_Tot

Would it be possible to allow magma to critically strike again with these FSOA changes? /u/JagexSponge

Would it be possible to allow magma to critically strike again with these FSOA changes? /u/JagexSponge

It's a good question.
Part of the issue I personally had with magma crits was the huge swing in adrenaline from tsunami.
I'm not going to say it's a no - it's something I'd want to re-look at more for consistencies sake than anything.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by PM_ME_YOUR_BANKS

fsoa is going to use alot less runes is there any plans to make ranged ammo cheaper aswell

fsoa is going to use alot less runes is there any plans to make ranged ammo cheaper aswell

So there's nothing concrete right now. However it's definitely something that's near the top of the list - in particular, runes/arrows only being drained through autos.

An example would be if we can get to a nice, reasonable drain rate for runes/arrows through abilities we could remove the dinarrows custom consumption, making a consistent drain rate for all ammo from lv 1-99

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by ImRubic

Overall changes seem well thought out for why they are being changed and modified. I'm not well versed in combat so I can't really comment as much as I'd like on the exact balance of the changes.

But I do have a few concerns moving forward:

  • Will tank armor viability be forever tied to Animate Dead?
  • Will future rewards be beneficial to players who may not utilize near or at the best combat gear?
  • Will old bosses be modified to be more consistent with any design themes?

Finally what other combat equipment are up for consideration of being changed (buffed, nerfed, or modified)? For example the Ring of Death has been a big focus of discussion by the community yet we've seen very little of that from Jagex.

Will tank armor viability be forever tied to Animate Dead?Will future rewards be beneficial to players who may not utilize near or at the best combat gear?Will old bosses be modified to be more consistent with any design themes?

Finally what other combat equipment are up for consideration of being changed (buffed, nerfed, or modified)? For example the Ring of Death has been a big focus of discussion by the community yet we've seen very little of that from Jagex.

It's absolutely not the plan for AD to be tied to all tank armor viability going forward. A large part of this going forward in my personal opinion is making defensives and other styles tank gear more satisfying/reasonable to use. We've got a lot of defensives right now that are... underwhelming, and I think improving tank from the bottom up is the way to go there.

As for gear that's up for consideration to changes, I don't want to promise anything but I'd say theres a fair amount of gear released in the last year or two that could do with reworks/improvements.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexAzanna - Direct link

Originally posted by RusselZ

Can we restore Magma Tempest critting if these changes go through?

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Positive_Ball_9689

A 'nerf' always leaves a sour taste in the mouth, I think the best way to go about it is buff the other styles to be able to compete with the numbers that FSOA puts out.. (it's not restricting future content its actually giving you a good path to go down for other combat styles and a good ballpark number to have other weapons put out similar numbers and get the dopamine you get with a FSOA)

The main issue with AD is that there is only one style of armour that benefits from it properly, Typeless damage is not the issue it's the fact that at certain bosses you don't even need to worry about the attacks as by the time you notice it you have soul split all the damage back as health, For now i think making it work for all 3 combat style attacks is good but we need more armour similar to cryptbloom for the other combat styles. (like asap)

Also with updates you need to consider ironman mode more, It was not viable at all to use a FSOA on an ironman unless you were wanting to do 10 hours of runecrafting beforehand, Increase stocks in stores to make it more worth while to use the special attack on FSOA, Similar issues also linger with ranged and dinarrows. (making melee the only combat style worth using for a casual ironman)

If there is anything you disagree with please let me know i'd love to see others feedback.

I think the best way to go about it is buff the other styles to be able to compete with the numbers that FSOA puts out.. (it's not restricting future content its actually giving you a good path to go down for other combat styles and a good ballpark number to have other weapons put out similar numbers and get the dopamine you get with a FSOA)

The issue isn't wholely with the damage fsoa was currently able to put out (whoever it was VERY) strong, but rather that any future upgrades pushed that number way higher, essentially roadblocking us on what we can do with mage.
Other things absolutely could do with buffs, however I don't think just flat-line buffing everything up to FSOA's level is the way forward and just leads to more issues further down the road.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by ThaToastman

It would be great if you posted a table for fsoa (Similar to what you did for AD) comparing the damage dealt from 25,30,35, and 40 crits from FSOA, vs the damage post change (as well as math on the approximate number of crits youll get while under this new spec) so we can get a sense of the capacity of the nerf

Likewise, will this nerf allow for reversion of the magma tempest nerf allowing it to crit again?

Also will you look into rebalancing zammy in response to weaker animate dead (the zammy realm seems designed for animate dead)--and the amount of hp he has seems balanced around having God-level power with fsoa

It would be great if you posted a table for fsoa (Similar to what you did for AD) comparing the damage dealt from 25,30,35, and 40 crits from FSOA, vs the damage post change (as well as math on the approximate number of crits youll get while under this new spec) so we can get a sense of the capacity of the nerf

Hoping to get the chance to do this, this evening - in which case i'll get it added above.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by TTTonster

The changes look good.

Was hoping to get Animate Dead ported to ranged and melee tank armour as well with the toned down version.

Fsoa bring ability damage is expected and understood. Could we see the crit changes to magma tempest being removed? Allowing pre magma tempest to synergies well with fsoa spec.

Was hoping to get Animate Dead ported to ranged and melee tank armour as well with the toned down version.

This is one that I see fairly frequently. This is something I'm personally trying to avoid - in the past, the combat styles have been (imo) too similar to each other, with alot of abilities being carbon copies of each other, resulting in styles feeling 'samey'.
I think that's something that has been resolved (at least partially), in particular with range and mage moving playstyles towards multi-hit & crit. The hope is that this can be extended to the tank halves of each of these styles, where ranged/melee could get some nice buffs in a different form. Appreciate it's not entirely satisfying, but we're hoping to improve combat in the long term, not just make short-term feel good changes.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Angeels

I do feel that an additional pass over the FSOA changes needs to be made. As it raises a couple of issues:

  • The damage looks to be way too low, especially with recursive removal.
  • You lose a massive amount of adrenaline gain (makes ABS a lot less desirable which was always a fun interaction).
  • You will lose utility from ancients spell effects (most notably blood barrage).
  • The staff's damage is still ridiculously crit rng for next to no real gain (and super reliant on grimoire).
  • You will never really equip the staff - 4TAA makes a resurgence and thats the only time you will equip the staff now as for any players not doing 4TAA its better to just camp DW for gconc.

Couple of potential solutions:

  • Set the player's crit chance when under the effects of FSOA upto a static number of 50/33/xx% for the spec's duration. This reduces need for grimoire whilst under its effects and reduces the rng of the benefits of the staff. This makes the damage issue a lot less of a concern, it also considers the cost which was always somewhat justified being such a powerful weapon.
  • Damage of the spec should scale depending on wielding the staff or dual wield - as it currently does in game whilst also considering the damage bonuses from inquisitor staff if players choose to wield that. It also just feels boring to wield the staff for the spec then swap off it (or eof it lmao).

Damage of the spec should scale depending on wielding the staff or dual wield - as it currently does in game whilst also considering the damage bonuses from inquisitor staff if players choose to wield that. It also just feels boring to wield the staff for the spec then swap off it (or eof it lmao).

Appreciate the feedback.
We're aware that getting the damage per hit here is going to be the hard bit to get right (both for release and for the long-term health of the game), so we'll absolutely be taking feedback on this.

The reason we're suggesting these changes is because it essentially lets us do more with the staff - if we find the staff isn't performing well enough (or feedback suggests this) we COULD move the damage lever up now if needed, or increase the consistency of the effect (e.g, flat crit chance buff whilst it's active) something that wasn't possible with the previous effect due to it essentially having no cap on the effect.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexHooli - Direct link

Originally posted by rajan503

Do we have an option to reject the proposal ?

I mean why nerf stuff instead of making other combat stuff more viable ? Couldn't we have done something like Wink wink, introduce animate dead for range and melee with necromancy or something ?

Yes, if you feel strongly it shouldn't happen, you absolutely can.

If you're up for it, what we do need with that though is any insight you can provide on why you feel that way. A "No" doesn't really help the team when they feel it's an important change to make, but detailed thoughts can be truly understood and considered a lot more when deciding what we do next. Hope that makes sense!

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Mr__Perfect_

Can we get a list of what is core vs. soft vs. hard typeless so we can actually know what it protects against? Right now nowhere in game explains this and its very confusing.

Core damage types are your standard damage - magic: (fire,water,earth etc) Melee, Ranged etc.

Both soft typeless and hard typeless will no longer be reduced by AD. This is something we're aware of as being confusing(soft and hard typless being different things), we'd like to update their hitsplats when we're able so it becomes apparent which is which.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by gdubrocks

I want to start off by saying that I strongly support the balance change being made to animate dead and fsoa, and that I strongly condemn the fact that it took 2 years to make the changes.

Are there going to be more regular balance/numeric changes in the future? Some examples below:

  • Changing hit chance to reduce damage by 1.5x instead of missing, using a different colored hitsplat to designate a miss
  • Adjusting lengs so that they are not outclassed by a 200m weapon
  • Tweaking hitcaps per style (or maybe adding some hitcap boosts to pocket slot items that are not grimoire)
  • Buffing zgs to increase bleed damage
  • Adding bad luck protection to bosses like arch-glacor, vorago, kerapac, and AoD that have unreasonably long grinds.
  • Giving accuracy auras a 2.5% damage buff
  • Giving aegis aura a 5-10% buff
  • Reducing 24 hour cooldown on Mahjarrat
  • Giving staff of sliske a numeric adjustment
  • Reducing cooldown on powerburst of acceleration and feats
  • Giving dreadnips more accuracy
  • Bringing melee back to par with the mobility of range and mage by allowing barge to have reduced cooldown but still keep adren from mobile perk (It doesn't make sense for the style with no range to also have the worst mobility)
  • Reducing the cooldown of the 20-100% ability damage abilities (or slice for melee) to 1.8 seconds so that players don't have to have multiple identical abilities on their bars
  • Fixing channeled abilities like snipe that still have a delay with revolution
  • Allowing anticipate to block stuns applied on the same tick
  • Buffing unused ultimate abilities
  • Further tweaks to ring of death
  • Allowing players to use an overload + a sara brew or a sara brew + a powerburst on the same tick (makes the game feel really clunky for no reason)
  • Disruption shield only blocks 75% vs typeless

Are there going to be more regular balance/numeric changes in the future? Some examples below:

I'm not going to promise this, as often things get in the way of intentions. But speaking to the combat council, it is fully the intention to hit numeric changes more frequently, especially with lighter changes so we don't give players whiplash.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Sticky__Mick

u/JagexSponge Hello Mod Sponge, would you be able to explain the thought process behind the ability damage of the FSoA. I've been suggesting this exact nerf for over a year now, but I'm wondering why you chose to not have the ability damage the same average damage as a 2h auto attack. I understand that this will make GConc better, as it will no longer throw dual-wield autos, but rather a flat ability damage. However, without the recursion, will the difference in average damage between the old and new be a bit too heavy of a nerf? How was it in testing? Do you have any percentages to give us at the moment for comparison?

Thanks!

Hoping to throw up a comparison later if time allows (currently a whole lot here to get through)

IIRC the damage value per hit is slightly above what you would've fired for a mainhand staff auto previously (so a buff under gconc, if you weren't staff switching after firing)
I'm very aware that the damage value could be pushed up slightly, however, if we go too far it again limits what we can do in the future with the play style (or we'd have to nerf again, something i'm categorically trying avoid)
Which is in part why we're fishing for feedback here, to see what the community wants from it.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Lolable97

These seem like very reasonable changes which we have needed for a while. Any thoughts about not allowing the staff to proc off of dummies? Great work btw xoxo u/JagexDoom u/JagexSponge

In general, I'm against dummies being used for cheesy mechanics like drawing extra crits out of the staff. I think there are bigger things to fix first, but yeah i'd like to remove that interactions with dummies in boss encounters.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexHooli - Direct link

Originally posted by [deleted]

[removed]

It takes time to respond to people. There's 100s of comments - we're trying to take them in and Sponge will respond whenever he can. Either way, all of them are being read and captured for us to go away and consider.

As we said in the post, nothing has been decided as yet.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by ericcb1

One of the great aspects of the staff spec was the synergy when it came to the auto attacks were the benefits you got from blood barrage spells. Most notably healing from blood barrage but to a lesser extent things like damage/accuracy debuffs from shadow/smoke barrage and damage reduction from Emerald Aurora. Are these synergies essentially now removed with the change to an ability based damage structure with the staff spec?

I'd say these were one of those synergies that were just over tuned. Ancient effects were 100% on autos due to autos inherently being weaker than most abilities and so this translated over to the FSOA spec too.
The excessive healing from the barrage is not something that we'll be looking to add back as it was particularly egregious, and reduced what we could do with the staff.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by 5-x

Zamorak was balanced around the current Animate Dead strength.

Any changes planned to Zamorak's damage output to offset this?

With the proposed changes, I don't feel it necessary to nerf Zammy's damage output as an offset, as the impact shouldn't be too bad.

That being said, Zammy P7 solo & P7 onboarding is something I am hoping we can address to let players better learn the encounter, which by itself could offset this, at least slightly.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by TTTonster

You aren’t planning on removing the dummy interaction for gchain I hope? As is used for Zuk challenge 1. I think that’s a relatively tame use of dummies that I think everyone would prefer to keep.

This sort of thing is the exact reasons AFAIK as to why it hasn't just been removed.

We'd need to consider all these things prior to a removal e.g. moving the mobs closer together so a dummy isnt needed.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Wazzyxd

Animate dead

Overall good BUT I am incredibly worried about high enrage Zammy (as someone who has pushed 4k solo and group), particularly Phase 7. Currently phase 7 is just about doable if you play incredibly well and the damage the boss does is just about tankable while eating food and using blood barrage during fsoa. The changes to animate dead and blood barrage fsoa mean that you will take SO much more damage that you're barely going to get to do much damage to the boss as you will have to play incredibly defensively.

1 proposal for this problem in particular is to make it so Zammy's bomb and subsequent typeless auto attacks are instead changed to magic. This means that players will be able to either camp pray mage if they are newer, or flick between mage prayer and soul split if they are more experienced, creating a fairly similar experience in terms of damage taken compared to now. You'd have to make the autos clear devotion like the mage cage does now so it can't be cheesed.

FSOA:

I am worried that the nerfs to damage are a bit much here. Angels had a good suggestion to temporarily increase crit change during fsoa which I quite like the idea of.

Losing auto attack effects does hurt high level players a lot but it's manageable.

My biggest concerns are the damage output of this new staff is trivial compared to the current one. The lightning bolts it fires out are significantly weaker than auto attacks are right now (90% damage vs ~150% + recursion).

The amount of adren that magic gets has been significantly reduced too. So, you will do less damage, gain less adrenaline which also means you will do even less damage, so it's a much larger nerf than it looks on paper.

Overall:

I like the direction of the changes but I think Zammy P7 must be looked at for animate dead (all other bosses are okay). FSOA nerf is a bit too harsh, I'd like to see it do a little more damage than presented here or gain some additional benefits that some other users have mentioned. Maybe damage is increased compared to what's posted but recursion is removed, or recursion is limited to only 1 or 2 times? Something like that would feel a bit better I think.

BETA servers would be amazing to be able to experience the nerfs in person as there's only so much you can do via text.

My biggest concerns are the damage output of this new staff is trivial compared to the current one. The lightning bolts it fires out are significantly weaker than auto attacks are right now (90% damage vs ~150% + recursion).

Trying to get through as many questions as possible so apologies for pulling just a chunk out of your post here to answer -

I'm fully aware that damage might be on the lower side and could be pushed up to compensate for recursion loss at least slightly - or via other levers with the fsoa effect. However - (I'll check later if I get time to do a full side by side comparison to throw in here, but I believe the avg of an auto is fairly far from 150%, & the old and new avgs per hit are much closer than you've implied (I absolutely could be mistaken and will take that into account alongside all the feedback from the community if so - hoping to do a small write up of comparative damage values if i get a chance tonight) )

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexHooli - Direct link

Originally posted by VixenMomma6

I'm fine with the changes. But could a mod hand out more love letters please <3 been chasing that achievement for years. Mod Hooli was only on for a couple of minutes. Please and thank you 😊

We'll be doing that more often for sure - had to get back to helping Sponge with this thread alongside Doom!

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by w0ok

Concerning this wasn't done already prior to proposing these adjustments.

Oh, it absolutely was done, I just don't have the numbers stored or to hand, and even taking the collective opinions of everyone with some stake in combat on our side, players are going to suggest different things or have different considerations.
This is absolutely why we're proposing the changes to you guys, because we know fully that you're going to have different considerations and an even broader breadth of knowledge.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by KobraTheKing

Can onslaught regain its critting please?

The 100% crit chance, no, it suffers from the same problem as current live FSOA, where it just synergises TOO hard with anything crit in the future, and it's likely we'd hit the same roadblock.

However, onslaught as a whole could get a rework/tweaks to give it back natural crit &/or get some adjustments in general. - Something I'm committed too is improving/adjusting our base set of abilities, a lot have seen very little love since release.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Wanna say a huge thank you to everyone for getting involved here. I'm going to do some dinner now but will continue to reply as/when I can over the next day or two.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexHooli - Direct link

Originally posted by JagexDoom

Thank you to everyone for your constructive feedback and contributions to this discussion. We really appreciate it! We'll be sporadically replying throughout the next 24 hours so look for more responses until end of day tomorrow! Massive thanks to u/JagexSponge for their time and insight today. Speak soon, 'Scapers!

+1 to this. Thank you all SO much - this has been full of well thought out, constructive perspectives for the development team.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Zoykz_

This is like saying you have to many cookies, so I'm going to take away one cookie from you so that I can give it back at a later time. Like, we won't be happy with future magic buffs if the overall power is the same or inferior to pre-nerfed fsoa. This is not an item that just came out, we have grown used to the fsoa's damage for the past 2 years. If this nerf goes through and in a year or so we get a magic upgrade, it would mean that magic's damage would have to stayed stagnant for 3 years! To me this just seems like an easy way to avoid having to make new content.

This is like saying you have to many cookies, so I'm going to take away one cookie from you so that I can give it back at a later time. Like, we won't be happy with future magic buffs if the overall power is the same or inferior to pre-nerfed fsoa

To use your same analogy, I'd say it's more like:

You've baked one cookie with all the chocolate chips in it. So now we can't make cookies ever again, or if we do, they're going to be very unenjoyable - And the person next to you that doesn't have the giant cookie is also going to suffer from it.

Now we can leave you with the giant messy cookie. Or we could pull some chips out of it, and know that we can continue to make satisfying cookies down the line.

Gosh, I dislike analogies.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by Zoykz_

But why not scale down the effects rather than completely removing the synergy bewteen the staff and spells? There can be a middle ground, I just don't see whats the point in removing one of the most interesting game interaction.

I mean, the effects do still exist, as they do with any standard ability - 10% proc chance iirc. (20 with dark form?) This would still apply to each of the fsoa shots post-changes, it's just not guaranteed huge pool of health that you essentially get for free.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by 5-x

/u/JagexSponge Any comment on the current state of Grimoire? Was it at all a consideration when FSoA rebalance was prepared?

/u/JagexSponge Any comment on the current state of Grimoire? Was it at all a consideration when FSoA rebalance was prepared?

So it's still not something that's been resolved yet.

However, I'd personally be a fan of getting the usage cost way down, or offering a similar pocket slot for crit users.

I do agree that some things in game should have high usage costs (my example would be a temporary buff you'd bring to e.g. get you over the edge to get you first zuk cape, at the cost of costing X amount and not being sustainable to continually use)
However, I don't personally think this suits the grimoire, as an item that has a decently high upfront cost and has become a pretty big component of both crit & melee builds. (I'd much rather grim have a higher upfront, and lower upkeep, so it feels less frustrating to use)

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

I know some of the players that really like numbers are going to plug this in and figure out exactly how it translates, and something I've seen in a few threads regarding recursive crits is the loss of adrenaline in part due to losing the recursion - It's worth me clarifying that the shots fired out by the FSOA post spec WOULD be able to still critically strike (triggering tsunami, and still scaling with your other crit effects, etc) it just wouldn't be able to retrigger itself.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexHooli - Direct link

Originally posted by whatshouldido12366

Sry, but everybody with a clear mind hopefully understand that this Fsoa change is a Death sentence for it. It´s literaly useless at that and u be better of putting it in an EOF to recrit greater concs with it.

Mod Sponge seriously what is this? If People actually fall for this and think this is good. I´m out of Rs 100%. This is a joke right? I want my 8b BACK ASAP. I hope for this enormous troll idea u will rebalance Zamoraks leaderboard to and rages setting all to 0 again they used Fsoa.

Just for the People that don´t understand how bad this really is. an Auto attack is 100% which average around 3500 damage anyway this spec is literaly worse than an normal auto attack or basic ability, doesn´t recrit which means u get like 8-10 hits at max when you are lucky and crit with your tendrill-Omni rotation, that hit first less than an Auto attack and second they are worse than an auto attack they will mostly hit 90% so far less can´t regain themself for 50% adrenalin.

Just to compare BOLG spec costs 27,5% Adrenalin rehits 25 times in 1 spec has 0 cooldown is a hard hitter has a passiv activ.

Yes i am angry like wth is this shit!

That is literaly deactivated staff status Week 1 a bit buffed literaly.

so whats next then BOLG again?

Totally understand your concerns here, but this is why we're coming out asking for feedback ahead of time.

Anything you can add to provide insight into your perspective would be really useful - we want to hear these concerns so we can take them on board and consider them along with all the other comments in this thread.

over 1 year ago - /u/JagexSponge - Direct link

Originally posted by nerfstonespirits

Isn't this going to bring about a return to 4TAA?
Something the combat team were looking to remove? u/JagexSponge

This is a contentious point, I'd actually like to discuss with the community.

In the current implementation prior to applying community changes, 4T would work with the staff but:

4TAA is something I'd (personally) like to remove from the game, I feel like it adds unintuitive complexity, that doesn't really need to exist. However, I fully understand that other players (especially those at the top of the skill ceiling) enjoy it as a form of skill expression.
Previously the combat council was shakey on removing it without giving some form of compensatory mechanic - my personal take would be to remove it without waiting for a replacement that may/may not be further down the line.

On the assumption that damage on the staff spec was increased to make up for the removal or prevention of 4TAA on it:
If given the option, what would you the players like to see happen with it?

1 4TAA Left on the staff.
2 Removal from staff effect only.
3 Removal of 4TAA from the game completely.