Original Post — Direct link

Tl;Dr at the top for you lazy folks out there: It has been clear to me from the beginning and with every further content update that Crema is not experienced with MMO game design and desperately needs help in this department for the longevity and future of their game. Every time I have seen a new update with a new system that sounds good on paper at first glance, it is not implemented in a player friendly and fun way. The way something is implemented is almost more important than the content itself and the mark has been missed way too often.

It doesn't seem to me that CU1 addresses this and simply piles on top of the same problems we've seen before. The level of grind in this game could be forgiven provided appropriate rewards, or to not make something a daily/weekly time gate at the very least. This game design pushes players to choose to play TemTem as the primary game they play for the week, or not play at all. If you do choose to play when you complete your mandatory grinding the rewards have not been compelling enough to make that choice more than a few times.

Unfortunately the other aspects of this game that make it an MMO have not been implemented in a player friendly way either. Let's take the new sticker system as an example. There are decent rewards to be found here, and it is finally not something locked behind a time-gated grind. So what have we got:

Right now I have seen within days of the update people saying that it is difficult to find others in-game* for assistance. In the future this will only become a task of frustration for every new player looking to do this content. Encouraging player interaction through lack of ability to complete content is not good game design and is another huge red flag from Crema.

From a game-design perspective there is absolutely no reason stickers had to be been implemented in this way. It's so obvious that these stickers could have been implemented in a way that ties other content in this game to it, and encourages player interaction because they haven't got something yet not because they CANT get it at all.

I could go on, but I will not make this post any longer to discuss every system in this game to death. It has all been said before, and I'm not going to be the last person to make a post like this. Crema has to do better with their systems. I'm personally not even going to touch CU1 as it has not given me any confidence improvements in this department will be seen in the future. I desperately want to see Crema stop trying to reinvent the wheel here when it comes to their MMO. The only reason people would ever choose to put up with it is due to the lack of competition on the market for monster capture/battler MMOs.

It *has to be able to be done in-game. Any suggestion that players have to be required to use a third-party tool to communicate or achieve something in-game is awful game design.

External link →
about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

This is indeed our first MMO, and we're learning still. Which is why we launched in Early Access, and why we read all these posts and gather the feedback we can extract from them. You're welcome to hone in on the specifics and express what you'd like to see or what would be fun for you, specially in regards to the current systems, and we'll do our best to make as much of the playerbase as we can happy.
As for the future, there's a lot of changes planned that specifically address some of the most common issues people point out. I totally respect not playing a game if the recent update hasn't satisfied you, and I hope we'll see you back for 1.0.

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by ShyGuyDragonite

I really just wish this game was more of a monster tamer with multiplayer aspects than an MMO. It certainly leans more that way. If it wasn’t advertised/classed as an MMO then I think it would be better for the game all around and give the devs more to focus on with the experience of a multiplayer monster tamer.

Now the devs have a headache on their hands with an already tired community trying to reinvent the game moving forward. Imo early access was out far too soon and has fatigued the fan base. I get that covid probably had huge delays for this small Dev team but even still, it has spent far too long in early access.

I have faith the team can pull it around, the game has so much potential, I just feel they’ve forced themselves into a corner.

First of all, thanks for the faith put in us and for trying to walk in our shoes, too. I super appreciate the kindness in times of a lot of stress, like post-patch.

Second, while you're right that the MMO tag resonates a lot with people and is echoed often, the MMO nature of Temtem has always been described as different to the general mmorpg, and is super close, actually, to what you describe. This is taken from the Kickstarter's FAQWhen you think about an MMO or MMORPG you probably think of enormous games like World of Warcraft or TERA, in which you have an endless array of possibilities (raids, guild wars, infinite quests, enormous dungeons, a never-ending realm…) but our vision for Temtem is a lot smaller than that.The core idea behind Temtem is to build a classic adventure game with a focus on the story campaign, but with online elements added around it (seeing other people online, interacting with them to battle, trade, or just to talk and share experiences).

This was written back in June 2018, and although our vision for the game has grown much larger, it's still ultimately our idea for the actual reality of the game, and much closer to it than comparing it to FFXIV. But we still believe Temtem is Massively (for an indie game that still hasn't released in 2/4 platforms) Multiplayer and Online, and like some people pointed out below, changing our branding now wouldn't do much or would feel like a betrayal.Even if the MMO tag might be considered a double-edged sword, we still have a lot up our sleeves that we hope will make the game feel better in general, both in the MMO and the monster-taming department.

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by You-JustLostTheGame

I think the answer is really really simple. Decrease the grind, completely remove time-gated content (as in allow it to be played whenever but adjust the rates of things), and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. A.k.a. just doing what other MMOs have already successfully done and are still doing to this day.

I have a rousing suspicion, due to the lack of player-interaction from the dev-team regarding the issues mentioned, that the core of the problem is likely that someone 'high-up' in the company is pushing this.

They want the game to be unique, but in doing so they're making it so the game isn't as fun as it could be. Creating a grind fest with no good incentive, making it so that players have to prioritize this game above all others. Making it so that, if you want to play PvP in a competitive-sense, you have to spend dozens of dozens of hours creating the perfect tems or be super duper lucky.

In trying to make the game unique they made it impossible for newcomers to properly enjoy the game without it feeling like a hollow grindfest. Don't get me wrong, I've only spent >10 hours playing and it's fun as Hell but it's not the only game I play. The grind-elements make it feel like the game was designed to be the only game I should be playing.

I wanted to clarify that we're not avoiding mentioning these issues because someone up there is being hard-headed. It's because we're working on internally addressing them, and seeing how to solve the ones we feel need fixing. We have our hands full with development, and we have a lot of plans in place we can't still talk about, and we're often seen as deflecting or avoidant when answering due to this. Not everyone in the dev team interacts with the community, too, and not all of us who interact with the community can answer many of the questions posed about the future (yet).

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by You-JustLostTheGame

internally addressing them, and seeing how to solve the ones we feel need fixing.

Internally addressing issues is cool and all but community engagement is cooler. Also, "seeing how to solve the ones we feel need fixing" that's one of the main issues here. The dev team thinks something works but the majority of the community wholeheartedly disagrees.

We have our hands full with development, and we have a lot of plans in place we can't still talk about

This is completely understandable as the game isn't 'fully released' yet but my points still stand with regards to how the game feels. It's not as fun as it could be. There's too much grind and too little reward. A lot of people play more than one game as well as have very little time to spend gaming in the first place.

not all of us who interact with the community can answer many of the questions posed about the future (yet).

Which is completely understandable what with the NDAs. There's only so much you can inform the player base of without getting in trouble. I'm just hoping that you all, as devs, understand that, for newer players who aren't addicts, playing feels more like a chore than anything else at times. I've enjoyed my time spent playing but I have a feeling that the game could be so much more if it wasn't a grindfest.

If I woke up tomorrow and y'all decided to make a statement saying "we're gonna focus on creating a single-player story-driven creature taming game with multiplayer elements" nobody would complain. Maybe the hardcore PvP nerds would, but they're not the majority so who cares. Literally a good chunk of the player base feels this way.

I'm the biggest fan of community engagement, and I always advocate for it when the time's right, but I also know you cannot design a game if you have the input of hundreds of people, each of whom want different and specific things, every day. Not everyone is a game designer, despite what the general attitude regarding videogames is. What people think "the majority of the community" is doesn't always match the insight we have, and we're not ones to make false promises, so I won't promise you we will align on every single detail, or that we'll share your vision for every feature. We address the stuff that's massive, we do, but I can't risk using absolutes in formal communication, it could cost me dearly in the future.

I totally understand that this is the time to provide feedback, and I have no issue with it. I only mentioned development because it truly is what occupies us all the time haha

Newer players are usually the more tame bunch, actually, because the grindier part of Temtem begins at the end-game. We understand where intense players are coming from, and we're trying to deliver as quick as possible.

As for that one last bit, we woke up in June 2018 and wrote this:
When you think about an MMO or MMORPG you probably think of enormous games like World of Warcraft or TERA, in which you have an endless array of possibilities (raids, guild wars, infinite quests, enormous dungeons, a never-ending realm…) but our vision for Temtem is a lot smaller than that.
The core idea behind Temtem is to build a classic adventure game with a focus on the story campaign, but with online elements added around it (seeing other people online, interacting with them to battle, trade, or just to talk and share experiences).

That is in fact the idea behind our game, and though our vision has grown a lot, and the game with it, it still is. That's why the single-player, story-focused bit of the game is stronger than the MMO element. The MMO element is also harder to nail on the head, but we'll get there. And don't mess with our PvP nerds, they drive us crazy but they're our PvP nerds haha

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by ShyGuyDragonite

That’s fair enough, I’ve not been deeply involved in TemTem so I didn’t realise that was your definition of how your brand yourselves as an MMO, so that makes perfect sense.

As I said in my post, I just see it for what it is for the most part. For me, it’s a monster tamer with multiplayer elements because those are the parts I find myself enjoying, and your wider scope on that now makes a lot of sense from the FAQ.

Great work so far, I’m looking forward to the eventual 1.0 update. I guess it’s a shame some people dig on the MMO wording too much (myself included in being guilty in that evidently)!

I don't blame the players who take the MMO tag by heart, because I understand it's an easy tag to see and fix upon. I just wish we could make the actual insight behind it as well-known as the MMO tag is haha
I think your viewpoint is great and I hope you can continue enjoying the bits you enjoy!

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by rogoku

Yeah I'm not playing the game until you decide to unlock the temdeck. We wanted an expansion of the storage, not a forced questline to keep using what we already have...

the storage doubles in size when you finish the quest. From 300 to 600 slots.

about 2 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by rogoku

And yet there is a forced questline to access that original 300 is there not?

yes, due to the rework of the storage system that was needed to increase storage for free. It's a very easy, fast-paced quest with no battles, can be done in less than 15 minutes