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This is the high quality content I come to this subreddit for! 👏 thank mr skeltal 💀
This is the high quality content I come to this subreddit for! 👏 thank mr skeltal 💀
I understand your point of view, and another idea could be different levels of leaver (where leaving for 5 minutes could be 0lp gain/loss if they return and win, and 10+ minutes could be the full lp loss) but... I know this system isn't perfect and I guess technically never can be perfect, however I do believe you should try to experiment and set this as a priority. The players affected are really hurt, especially in my example where I played a major role in winning the game in the end.
The false-positives under a win should be able to be appealed in some way (to not get lp taken or gained), because it's not a gain at all honestly. Its more like a 2nd chance.
I wish I could talk in more specifics about the system, but I don't work on that team and I don't know the specifics. 😞 (let me reach out to the team tho, see if there's some more insight they can provide!) I do know that the system isn't a black-and-white punishment system (so you're spot-on with the granularity idea!), and I do know that the team who works on it does experiment with the system and does research on ways to improve it! I just want you to know that 1) we hear ya, 2) we know it sucks (we feel ya!), and 3) we're always looking for ways to prevent these things from happening, or reduce the pain when it's hard to prevent, so we appreciate players like you who care and give us this feedback! 😊
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oh boy, I see where I mess up here. I'm sorry for not being more clear in this regard! 😅 we do have a team whose purpose is researching and solving these problems, and they do hire smart PhD CS and data science folk and they do use ML algorithms to solve these problems, so you're not wrong in that regard!
My intention was to highlight some domain-specific constrains when dealing with the general idea of "punishing leavers", as well as show the different trade-offs that we might consider when building and fine-tuning the systems we use to execute this idea. We all want the same thing - punish the toxic players, and don't punish the non-toxic players! And while no system is perfect, acknowledging that fact does not make your pain around this system any less legitimate. My hope is that when players read what I've written, they understand a bit more about what's going on behind the scenes and "why things are they way they are", but also that Riot hears their pain and is working...
Read moreAlthough the ranked system currently "can not be touched" and players lp cannot be changed, why can players not undo the loss and be able to appeal their leaver (if they won the game). In this way, at least they could return they lp to where it was before aka +-0 LP instead of -17 in this case. They wouldn't be gaining any LP, they wouldn't be gaining anything over other player technically considering their team gained lp and they lost lp.
Or b) what do you think or players just not losing lp if their team won? Sure the afk player should be punished, but technically they are being punished by not recieving the rewards their team did.
"Appealing their leaver punishment" feels like a good amendment to make to the system, but I think it reduces to the same problem we originally have: how do you determine if someone left for legitimate or malicious reasons? And when you start to think about specific things someone could show to demonstrate their innocence, how can we make sure those things can't be faked by malicious players? It's tough, it really is...
I like how "not gaining/losing LP if you get flagged by the leaver system but your team still wins" sounds initially, so I'll iterate on some thought I have about the specifics below.
1) if you leave in the middle of the game and don't come back, regardless of your intention, you've put your team at a significant disadvantage. The fact that they overcame that and won is awesome, but we can't really give them more LP for overcoming that hurdle (that's just ripe for LP abuse). In this case, I think it makes sense to punish the player for how they punis...
Read moreI think the real problem is the specifics.
Like it is really easy to say "leaves get this penalty" and just blanket apply it to anyone who leaves.
But if you try to put in something for people who reconnect then OK should they have to reconnect before X minuses? What is X? Is 5 too low? Maybe 10?
Did they move around after reconnecting? How far did they move? Did they just run in the circle to avoid punishment?
What about how long before the end of the game they reconnected? Did they reconnect just before the end of the game? Did they do that on purposed to avoid punishment? What if they didn't but also didn't have time to walk out of base before the game ended? Do they still get punished?
I could go on and on and on. It is really hard to try to make something "fair" and people will always try to game the system so you risk people abusing it with every rule you add. Much easier to just say "leavers get a penalty" and leave it at that.
Both u/HubblePie and u/sinderling touched on the heart of the problem here:
1) How do you determine intention based on behavior?
(To a lesser degree, there's the additional problem of "How do you execute (1) in such a way that people cannot game the system?", but let's focus on the main problem here)
It is really really difficult to be absolutely certain of what someone else's intention is, when all you can observe is their behavior. And I'm not just talking about software and games here - this is a good life lesson to remember when you're dealing with problems betwe...
Read moreString HelloWorld[]=new String{"arraysstartat1","H","e","l","l","o","w","o","r","l","d");
For (int i =1: i<HelloWorld.length;i++){
System.out.print[i]: }
Hire me Riot.
Don't want to sound rude, and i don't even know if you are someone that take decisions on Riot, but, knowing this is so helpful and useful to atleast some people, why aren't you guys the ones that do this?
You know what? You make a great point! Let me ask around and find the right team for this suggestion. (And you didn't sound rude at all, I appreciate that).
This is pretty helpful, added it to my personal calendar. Thank you! :)
Nice
Nice