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[2020] My brother and I were enjoying Valorant together.


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Hi guys - wanted to quickly share an experience and see if anyone has experienced anything similar. My brother and I have been playing Valorant every night since launch. He lives over a days drive away so it’s the only way we get to spend time together.

Anyway the other night we were in a ranked game together I’m plat he’s silver and he’s just gotten back in to gaming but is cooperative and helpful in a team setting. From the very start of this game he was abused by our teammates (all plat) I explained that we played together, were within 6 ranks of eachother and asked if they could be calm and helpful. Normally we get a better spread of ranks in our games but not the case in this one.

Over the course of the game things got worse we ended up pulling the game to an 11 - 11 match despite the constant abuse he was getting. He bought myself and the other top frag guns because our econ was shot. We went 12-11

At this point it had become obvious our teammates were grouped and in discord or the like. We ended the game 12-13 and they abused the hell out of us for queueing together.

My brother, defeated tells me this morning he thinks he doesn’t want to play anymore. I convince him it’s an isolated incident and to hop on this evening so we can practice some more.

He hops on this evening to error 61 the ban code. He’s obviously been group reported by this squad and as a result hit with this. I’m furious. We’ve submitted a ticket because his behavior should have in no way supported a ban like this he wasn’t abusing in text or voice and was even afraid to talk in comms because he was being abused so heavily by our 3 team mates. This is not okay.

Let me know if you’ve experienced anything similar because I’ve never experienced anything like this in any game.

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almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

As far as I know there is no way to get a permanent game ban from weight of reports alone. My guess is that this is a cheating ban.

If you message me your brother's account ID I can take a look but it is unlikely that me investigating will lead to the account being unbanned.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by freshleebaked

Hey just curious if there will eventually be something implemented to stop stacks 3 - 4 stacks from getting people restricted by reporting them. Will people who consistently report for no reason or just getting angry at people for playing poorly as a 3 - 4 stack have their reports not automatically trigger chat restrictions if there are enough false reports that they make?

A single game with only reports from a stack of players won't generally restrict players. Most restrictions are over a course of games unless the person hit the hate speech/racist word auto restrictions.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by guin717

Hey RiotArkem,

If I were able to provide video of Vanguard banning me for non-cheating software, would you be willing to take a look?

This seems very unlikely, Vanguard doesn't ban people for non-cheating software and opening a piece software doesn't generally immediately ban you, there's usually at least a small delay. It's more likely that a previous detection for cheating was being applied to your account.

Feel free to send in a ticket with the video and it'll be reviewed.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by freshleebaked

Hey just curious if there will eventually be something implemented to stop stacks 3 - 4 stacks from getting people restricted by reporting them. Will people who consistently report for no reason or just getting angry at people for playing poorly as a 3 - 4 stack have their reports not automatically trigger chat restrictions if there are enough false reports that they make?

At least for cheating there is no way for a player to be banned from reports alone there always needs to be some additional evidence.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by guin717

To be a little more clear, I had played 2 or 3 games of unrated earlier with a mouse I had just gotten as a gift. The DPI buttons are located behind the scroll wheel and I kept hitting them while trying to change weapons. I then minimized Valorant to open the mouse's software and turn off the buttons. I then went into a ranked game with my buddies and I was banned on round 3 or 4.

I don't think there's any way for your mouse buttons or your mouse software to cause you to get banned.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by freshleebaked

I feel like i'm not the only one who's had an unlucky run of running into 3 - 4 stacks who are very toxic and report if they don't like how you play. I'm glad it's not one just one game but there's still a good chance that these types of players can get someone restricted in this way. I'm guessing there's nothing to lower the priority of peoples reports at the moment then if they're false reporting?

I'm sure there are cases where players do get unlucky running into a toxic combo of players when solo queuing. Unless that player's getting baited into saying stuff that would trigger a chat ban, just being reported by a group in a couple games over a decent period of time won't result in restrictions.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by freshleebaked

yeah... i get baited hard sometimes :(

Especially in the heat of the moment, it's hard to not want to respond to someone who's out of line. I know they also want that response...so muting them's been my best option. Avoid giving them the satisfaction that they got to me by just calling out tactical stuff and not hearing them back.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Ryguzlol

Hope you respond to this. I've been chat banned twice already and both games are DIRECTLY after games with a 4 stack where I was "baiting" and "not playing with the team"

I hope what you are saying is true, but from my experience it does not seem like it. Also, just feedback in general, getting chat restricted hurts my team more than it hurts me. I solo queued yesterday into another 4 stack and they proceeded to flame me for "not having a mic" even though I do, but I am just voice chat and chat banned so I can't say anything.

The system is clearly broken from what it seems.

It's hard to say. While those being the games where the reports potentially triggered it, it's unlikely you received a chat restriction 2 times from literally one game each...the system does not typically work that way.

Getting chat restricted can impact tactical callouts, it's true. The majority of players getting chat restricted are probably not utilizing chat in the most positive and constructive way, so I would wager it helps other players in most cases. With any tech and with nuance of human interaction, there are definitely narrow scenarios where a completely innocent person gets a restriction...it's just rare.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by JohnBrownWasGood

Imagine banning people for standing up for themselves

We don't. We add restrictions (chat, etc) to accounts that have a pattern over multiple games of exhibiting negative chat behavior. Standing up for yourself doesn't have to include responding to toxic players with equal levels of toxicity or negativity. We want to catch those toxic players, it's important not to stoop to their level.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by DidHeJustSayThat_

I've been wanting to ask a question directed to riot personnel, hopefully to understand what to do in a said situation:

When i started the game in the public beta, i was not doing great, in fact, i was doing terrible, mostly due to me being new to tactical shooters. A teammate starts voice/chat flaming and i decide to text "Mutted" and proceed to mute him. About a round or two later, another teammate of mine says in all chat to please report me for flaming and intentionally inting, which confused me a lot because i had not interacted with anyone apart from the mute comment. This is where my doubts come in, many friends queue up together frequently, but i myself play alone, if i find myself in a situation again where the whole premade squad decides to report me for invalid reasons: me actually being bad rather than inting, what can i do?

I'm not the only one who has encountered this situation, many of my friends have too, in which a 4 man team flames and asks the other team for a report thanks to them being 4 against 1. What actions can be taken? Should one take a picture of the chat and send a ticket? Is it possible to get banned for something of the sort?

I apologize for the long text. Im loving the game so far and i thank Riot personnel for being supportive and hearing the community!

It's very unlikely you would get a ban from that. If you're getting harassed by folks in the game (especially if it's causing you to mute them), using the report function yourself for those players is a good idea. It's likely it's not the only match they're that way. Cumulative reports are what trigger restrictions--patterns of behavior. Text chat is accessible in reports we get, so we would see it in review.

Sorry you're running into those types of players! It's not an easy game to learn and get better at, and those types of players don't help. Glad you're enjoying the game!

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

Yea, that's the lie Riot tells for LoL too.

What's the lie? Is your assertion that completely innocent players are getting chat restricted after a game or two of reports from premades?

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by 2ndnamewtf

I know you get a message if you report a cheater and that cheater gets banned letting you know your actions helped. But do you also get one if you have a super toxic teammate over voice comms that they got chat banned or mic banned? (If the latter is even a thing I’ve been working too much to keep up) because I had a player last night that just started talking shit to me right when we entered agent select and was like that the whole game. And he was in a 4 stack with the rest of my team so I know I’m the only one that reported him. Thank god for the mute button but every time I unmuted him he was talking shit to me. I hope this game doesn’t become a toxic cesspool

Currently, the implementation is specifically on the cheats side. We do want to improve the feedback for players on toxicity reports in the future, and this is one of the things that's been discussed as a potential solution.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

This definitely happens in LoL, yes. Which was the assertion. Maybe it's because the report trains combine with the oversensitive chat detection system, I don't know, but it happens.

I don't have any experience, anecdotal or otherwise, to say so for Valorant. But it's still Riot.

There are scenarios with some combos where the player responding to the negative group of players with strong swear words can create more weight to the reports in the auto chat restrictions. It can happen. That's the getting baited into a chat ban I was referring to.

The best thing to do is not respond to toxic teammates. Obviously we want to catch the people provoking and being jerks. It's important that players don't respond to toxicity with toxicity. It doesn't solve the issue in the game.

Players who don't respond with harsh chat and are being trolled won't get any restrictions from a troll group of premades.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

There are scenarios with some combos where the player responding to the negative group of players with strong swear words can create more weight to the reports in the auto chat restrictions. It can happen. That's the getting baited into a chat ban I was referring to.

I'm not referring to people getting baited. If I'm getting harassed and troll reported by a premade, and I say "f**k" after I stupidly facecheck a bush, that's not getting baited. But does your system detect the swearing is unrelated to the people 4x (or more, if they manage to goad the enemy team into doing) reported by a premade?

Or is swearing entirely a punishable offense? I admit, maybe it is and I just never realized it.

Hell, apparently even calling people racist, sexist, or homophobic is enough to be caught by the automatic chat restrictions when you get mass reported? Sorry, but if you think calling someone racist before muting them, or even suggesting other members of you team "mute the racist troll" should be a punishable offense then you're a lost cause.

The best thing to do is not respond to toxic teammates. Obviously we want to catch the people provoking and being jerks. It's important that players don't respond to toxicity with toxicity. It doesn't solve the issue in the game.

This is a separate conversation, but honestly Riot's entire system has stopped serving the playerbase and only serves as a way for them as a company to look like they're doing their best to combat toxic people. This is evident in the support team's unwillingness to budge even when it's obvious the system got it wrong that time.

The problem isn't just the automated system and the way it can be manipulated by assholes. The problem is that support's main job seems to be to do their best to justify NOT unbanning people no matter what they find when they investigate.

Our system is not perfect. People who want to really effectively troll and game the system can happen. We want to remove those players, and we want that system to not impact players who are positive in their interactions in chat.

I don't think the scenario where one's getting harassed and then has an innocuous swear unrelated to that is a high use case. In general, I don't recommend using potentially offensive words in a solo queue environment or directing aggressive chat back at harassers. There is some automation in our chat restrictions, so it's possible you get restricted more quickly than that troll. It will feel less fair--and probably is in a lot of cases. Those same auto restrictions do capture a lot of very toxic players, though, and do so quickly.

It's a priority to impove these systems: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/quick-lol-thoughts-game-ruining-behavior/

That being said, not getting a restriction in chat is fully in one's control. I get wanting to tell the toxic troll off, but in the grand scheme of things it does nothing positive. It lets one vent and gives the troll what they want.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

I don't expect any automated system to be perfect. What I do expect is that support staff be willing to fairly assess it on a case-by-case when appeals are made rather than spinning every angle they can to defend the restriction despite it being a miss by the system.

It's a priority to impove these systems: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/quick-lol-thoughts-game-ruining-behavior/

It'll be great if they do, but this has been going on for quite a while and Riot has a habit of saying they're working on something and then it falling by the wayside. Here's hoping this isn't one such example in the future. That said, again, there are problems beyond the automated systems.

That being said, not getting a restriction in chat is fully in one's control.

Yes. You can mute all and not chat at all in the majority of games (which makes for a great online gaming experience!).

I get wanting to tell the toxic troll off, but in the grand scheme of things it does nothing positive. It lets one vent and gives the troll what they want.

I still don't know where you're getting the "telling the troll off" part. Unless you think pointing out that what someone said is racist before eventually muting them because it's obvious they're a toxic troll.

And again, if you think pointing out that what someone is saying is racist, sexist, or homophobic is the equivalent to being toxic and/or is worthy of punishment, then there's a problem on your end.

That said, I'm still new to the Valorant sub with low comment karma, so I guess I better behave and zombie-walk to the popular opinion before downvotes start giving me comment cooldowns. :)

I'm just saying engaging with people trying to troll is never going to end well. It'll just get you more upset.

I don't think calling something out as inappropriate in chat is worthy of punishment. I do think there are constructive comments and unconstructive comments. I also think people often think their comments are innocuous or constructive when they're not.

I've played league for 11 years with all chat on and have thusfar avoided restrictions and, last i checked, any reports. My approach in comms is i'm saying something tactical/useful for team info or calling out positive moments in the game for teammates. If the chat's not helping the team with valuable info or not lifting someone up, it's probably not worth typing.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by WowWhatWhyHow

u/RiotArkem, I keep hearing this more and more and I am getting really concerend. I remember Mixwell getting banned by Vanguard in the beta for plugging a usb cable from his pc into his phone. And I kinda have the bad gutfeeling that if he wouldn't be a streamer and cs pro, he would've got the "we don't give info to vanguard bans and close the ticket now" treatment. I believe there are many eleborate stories from cheaters ... but I kinda have the feeling, some are legit false bans. Aand it kinda gets me worried, since it could hit everyone then. Maybe one day I open up my Photoshop and it got an update and now your Vanguard thinks its a cheat. How will you prevent that? why is your support not giving specifics to bans? People shove hundreds, some even thousands into your store and yet your support doesn't give out information on bans? what the hell??

Mixwell was never banned, he just saw an error message that required the client to restart.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

Your anti-cheat is unreasonably aggressive towards things that aren't actually cheats despite, as will always be the case with anti-cheats, hackers still getting through. There is regular everyday software it stops me from even opening when it's running. Not "gives me an error and closes Valorant," but "restricts my PC from opening the software." It won't even let me open Guild Wars 2 if Vanguard is up and running.

Is there any way for you to discern if it was actual cheating or just Vanguard missing the mark (again)?

If Vanguard is blocking software (and not the game) you should let me know because we disabled that feature during beta.

almost 4 years ago - /u/RiotArkem - Direct link

Originally posted by m20KEW

Does that mean you are not banning people that use mouse macros? This would seem to be quite an invite for cheaters. Even though Valorant's recoil patterns aren't as consistent as in CSGO, a recoil macro could be created by anyone with mouse drivers these days. Jump Throws etc. could be made more consistent...

It is very unlikely that turning on mouse macro software will be the trigger for a ban.

If a player is cheating (with mouse macros or whatever) we'll flag them for a ban and depending on our current strategy / specific cheat the ban will take effect some time later. Fast bans are usually a few minutes and slow bans are hours (or days in some cases).

So if a player does something and then is immediately banned it is very likely to be a coincidence.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Fi3nd7

I've been called the N word over audio and reported them but didn't get a succeed notification. Im curious how you guys handle audio/voice reports and if they're at all effective?

Reporting is definitely recommended. In voice cases, we often have to rely on either videos sent via player support or pattern of reports on that player from the in game reporting. It's definitely an area we're working on more tooling to be able catch this more accurately and more quickly to remove those players. It's not where we currently want it to be.

almost 4 years ago - /u/ArmiesofZNight - Direct link

Originally posted by Rohbo

I guess your experience must represent everyone's.

I went just over 9 years before I got my first and only punishment. A char restriction where the only log a game where someone flamed everyone and made racist remarks towards my teammates. I got punished for saying "racist and sexist, a good look on you."

Support told me, after, that it was justified because I ruined his experience in that game.

Also, your anecdote being true doesn't mean that the anecdotes of everyone with a different experience are false. You shouldn't have to be either silent or a shining rainbow swimming through sludge to not be punished. Thankfully in my case I am almost always an overly positive person so I got back to honor 4 quickly and still earned my end of season ranked rewards for what little they're worth in Plat, but it doesn't sting any less that that mark is on mt account, now, after years of being a positive community member and being punished for calling out a racist (and not even doing it in a toxic or aggressive way).

As I said before, our current implementation. If that was your experience, that sucks. That's not the experience we're trying to have happen in the game. I'm hoping the improvements in flight for those systems help address that.

I know that my anecdote doesn't negate others experiences. There are failings in the current system. There are exceptions that we hope are kept a minimum. I think the system currently is failing more in catching people being abusive in chat regularly in a way that automation can't easily catch much more than players are incorrectly getting restricted. It absolutely happens, but the rate is very low.

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