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Viper, as a controller, should be seen as an alternative to Brimstone or Omen, and she actually has all the tools she needs to fill the role. She has two decent mollies, the biggest smoke in the game, and her wall, which in my opinion, is the best LoS-blocking ability in the entire game. So why isn't she as popular as the other controllers?

1. Ease of Use

This is hands down her biggest problem. As mentioned before, Viper has all the utility she needs to execute, and also defend a site. The issue is that she can't do it properly. Viper has to equip her smoke, throw it, wait for it to land, and finally activate it. Meanwhile, Brimstone and Omen can both pinpoint exactly where they want their smokes to go, and can do so without exposing themselves or using complicated lineups. This alone already makes Viper a far less attractive option. To make things even worse, she has to be within cuddling distance of her smoke to pick it up, and as a result, she is forced to commit to smoking a single location, and requires a long time to prepare her smoke to use it on another location. This is, once again, a problem other controllers simply don't have to deal with.

Her wall also had this problem, but after the buffs it is now very easy to use effectively and no longer requires lineups. There is little reason to not buff her poison orb in a similar way.

2. Presence

Cypher's Cyber Cages make noise if the enemy pushes through them. That means it's suicide to walk into it instead of waiting it out, since it is very easy for Cypher to shoot through his smokes to punish anyone trying to walk into site.

Brimstone and Omen can smoke a single location multiple times, forcing the enemy to push through them if they want to take control of a choke point. If this is not necessary, they can use their smokes in different locations.

And guess what, Viper has none of those benefits. If she uses all her fuel, the poison orb lasts 15s (same time of Brim and Omen smokes), and so does the wall. If both are activated at the same time, her fuel barely lasts 10s. Which just isn't worth it. After her fuel is fully depleted, she has to wait 20 whole seconds for it to fully recharge. Therefore, she has to wait 20s to use use ONE of her abilities for another 15s.

As a result, it's simply impossible for Viper's utility to be as present as the other controllers' utility. She can only smoke one spot at a time, and it isn't any harder to push through her smoke wheh compared to Brim or Omen smokes since the Decay debuff does nothing.

3. Possible Solutions

I believe Viper doesn't need more raw map control power, since she already has plenty. What she needs is more ways to use her utility effectively. Her entire kit is strong, but she needs to have an easier time taking advantage of it. So how should she be changed? Here are some suggestions:

  • Remove the faster depletion of her fuel if both of her abilities are active (or even better, make her fuel recharge faster)
  • Allow Viper to pick up her smoke from a distance, just like Cypher can pick up his camera and traps
  • Change the Fragile debuff so it lasts 2-4 seconds after leaving the AoE (So Viper has a better opportunity to punish anyone pushing through it)

These are relatively small changes that, when combined, are pretty substantial. If they STILL aren't enough, here are some crazier, maybe unbalanced ones:

  • Let Viper re-use her wall after 35s (just like any other signature ability). If she deploys a new wall, the previous one just disappears.
  • Make the Decay debuff much more aggressive, dealing damage slightly faster, but more importantly, making it so it takes a very long time to fully recover from the debuff. The main focus of this is to make her ult actually scary to walk inside of.

If you're still here, thanks for reading! If you're wondering why i didn't talk about her ult as much, it's because i honestly don't know how to buff it without making it extremely overpowered. It surely is in an awkward spot right now, but i don't think it's as bad as people say it is.

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over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Balance team has been talking about Viper a lot - stay tuned. If all goes as planned there'll be more buffs for her next patch!

I don't want to share any specific details or hard commit to it because it's not all set in stone yet, but that's the plan.

over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Originally posted by SpyyGuyy

Thanks for the reply! If you're allowed to tell us, what would you say is Viper's "identity" as an agent? Brimstone seems centered around burst executes, Omen seems to excel at deception and mind games. Viper's doesn't seem to be as straightforward as theirs.

I've always gotta preface replies like this with: I'm not a designer, I'm insights. I work really closely with them on all of our gameplay content, but don't actually build the stuff!

With that being said - yeah, you're correct on Brim and Omen. Brim tends to do bursty executes but he's worse at fakes, Omen is amazing at fakes and deception and has a bit more personal agency in being able to flank and break angles for his team, but pays for it with less raw smoke uptime than Viper or Brimstone, and his smokes are a bit easier to push through.

Viper is primarily zone control. She has the highest commitment of any of our controllers (because her smokes get placed for the entirety of the round, minus picking up and reploying her Q). Due to this "price" she's paying, she gets to have the highest ceiling on her smoke coverage, being able to block off huge sections of the map with her E and Q for long periods of time multiple times over the course of the round. She's not as good at faking between multiple sites, but can exert a ton of pressure on her chosen areas indefinitely; she never is "out of smokes" like our other controllers are, it's just a matter of time for her resource to recharge. Her ult is the most extreme version of that zone control, where she locks down an area and calls it her own. In addition, to emphasize that zone control fantasy, she has her fragile molotov and health decay on her smokes, making them scary to push through compared to our other controllers' smokes.

over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Originally posted by devilkazumi

I agree except it's not really scary to push thru viper smoke or molly. The only exception is if it's like a one way smoke, which isn't unique to viper anyway.

For sure! That’s totally fair feedback and something we’re keeping an eye on. One interesting balance is that we don’t want Viper to feel like a sentinel who “sets up” an area like Cypher and then just defends it; being proactive and taking ground with her smokes is key on top of exerting control in that area once you’ve claimed it. It’s a delicate balance to strike and something we’re clearly still trying to fine tune

over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Originally posted by evilbride

whats Balance team?

The live balance team is a group of designers and insights folk like myself who are responsible for analyzing the state of the live game and ensuring that it remains healthy. Buffs/nerfs in the patch notes, for example, come from us.

over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Originally posted by warkod

I had game yesterday against viper, they were premades and had been training executes, on haven, viper got control of C every round, by just doing same thing every round, putting wall up so it is clear to push to site, they didn't come from there every round, so she was watching flanks some rounds, but it kept me from rotating to A site, because there was possibility they come to C at the end of round, what they exactly did for couple rounds

Yeah, this is one of the things she’s good at - consistent default pressure that enemies have to respect, even if you don’t always capitalize on it. That just tends to be a lot harder to coordinate around in solo queue.

over 4 years ago - /u/Altombre - Direct link

Originally posted by BubbleCast

Morello said they're working on evaluating what's the real problem with the op and not straight nerf it.

You gotta wait out, we had a post that linked to his tweet already.

Yup, pretty much this. We’re talking about it but we suspect the Op is just one part of a larger phenomenon we want to dig into and understand before making any hasty changes.