[2021] Major update "Red Skies" - Rumor Round-Up and Discussion

Done.

We have already said Finland is with Sweden mostly. So it's appropriate for them to get it.

Not in Red Skies.

Not now. USA has F-5C & F-5E this patch.

Again? They just got the F8U with Ixwa Strike.

The developers have said its planned for the British Phantoms (FGR.2 and FG.1) to receive AIM-9G by the release of Red Skies.

There is no self contained French domestic air defence system , that does not require a separate guidance machine/vehicle/equipment and would use the VT-1 whilst being completely French.

There are towed trailers or other vehicles that depended on separate vehicles and equipment for guidance to use the VT-1.

All other French vehicles required separate vehicles in order to use these systems, such as the AMX-30 chassis, that required two vehicles:

As such, the Crotale NG we have added for France and Sweden makes the most sense as a self contained unit.

Because you already asked and we answered 5 hours ago:

This vehicle does not have a searching radar and cant use the weapons system by itself. Hence why it was not added.

This is an M113. Its not French. Its just yet another platform it could be mounted on.

None of those domestic chassis that are not a towed trailer have the full means of firing and guiding the weaponry without a secondary support vehicle. Hence why they were not introduced.

Again, neither of these vehicles are French domestic. So the Crotale NG is just as valid here.

This isn't French either, so again. The Crotale NG is just the same.

This is incorrect. None of the domestic French Crotale VT-1 units were a fully self contained unit capable of searching, firing and guiding the VT-1 in the same way all other SPAAGs do in game. They required separate vehicle platforms:

F-5A and C were able to be retrospectively fitted with them. Unlike any French domestic SPAAG with VT-1 which was physically incapable of searching, firing and guiding the missiles with a single vehicle.

Other than towed units, there is nothing French that could do it in a single platform.

French players specifically wanted a Crotale VT-1. This is the best self contained platform for that and makes the most sense as it can be shared with the Finish tree. The other platforms such as M113 and others are not any more domestic or relevant to France than this.

We have no plans to cancel a perfectly valid weapons platform that has no issues. Again, there are no French domestic platforms capable of searching, guiding and firing the VT-1 Crotale all in a singular vehicle.

Some nations have more jet aircraft to add over time than Sweden and Italy.

Italy is also getting a new jet this Patch and Sweden had several medications of its SAAB 105/Sk-60 family recently.

There are more plans ahead for both nations.

We have no plans for this as the M113 is no closer to a domestic system than the currently planned one. Not to mention, it literally does the exact same thing in game. It server no benefit or purpose to change the model when neither are fully domestic, because a fully domestic French one does not exist.

Also:

Germany has it because it was planned to receive it and there is material on that. Its German domestic platform so makes sense for Germany.

Meanwhile there is no French domestic platform that can search, lock, guide and fire all at

Last time I checked, French players were more than happy to claim the SK 105 because it had either French components or French licenced parts.

This vehicle has even more than that, with the whole weapons platform being French. So it more than meets the exact same criteria that lead to the SK 105 being introduced in the French tree too.

There is no French domestic design that can search, guide, fire and lock the VT-1 Crotale in a single vehicle. They all required multiple vehicles to do so:

The M113 was never used by the French Army as a VT-1 carrier. Its no more domestic than the platform being introduced.

French players wanted one ASAP. Here it is.

This topic was forwarded as soon as it was created and all domestic options explored. None equate to the IT090.

A PR photo to sell it to other nations who actually used it.

There was no AMX-30 variant that received it. They were all separate platforms

Its US and French. The developers were well aware of who developed it. But its not solely French.

We checked every domestic chassis proposed. All of the domestic required multiple platforms or support vehicles to fully operate.

You asked this the other day and as I said then, we have the Red Top reports under review.

Finland is also with Sweden in the tree. Hence why they have several vehicles already from Finland.

France is getting its VT-1 Crotale this patch.

Right now, we are literally going round in circles about what foreign vehicle chassis it will be on.

The developers have chosen the ITO as its no closer to being domestic than the M113 or other platforms that could search, guide and fire in a self contained unit.

French players asked for a VT-1 platform as soon as possible.

This is also not a domestic chassis and is no more domestic than the M113 or ITO. The weapons system is French and gives the French tree access to the VT-1.

None with enough information to model reliably or that are contained in a self contained and independent vehicle like the ITO.

Because the ITO was still in development. We said France would get the platform as soon as it was ready too.

Both the range report and Semi all aspect report are being reviewed.

Incorrect. The ITO just took longer.

The size of a vehicle does not mean its finished faster. If there are more sources, information and resources available for one over another it can be finished faster.

If you can provide sources showing the French forces used the M113 Crotale system, we can pass them to the developers to consider.

However currently all sources show that the M113 Crotale was a private development for other nations. Like the FlakRak.

So lets also remove everything else not 100% French from the French TT too?

Exactly the point. So the

American F-5A models and therefor the F-5C model could be retrospectively fitted with countermeasure systems. So the F-5C has that in game.

Because its a German vehicle ?

A proof of concept vehicle developed by the Thomson company accompanying French armed forces on a PR exercise is not service with the French armed forces.

It was modified by the Tomson company. Partly also US.

It has no relation to French armed force service and no more than the ITO.

One of the things im most looking forward too this patch

The 987 FVS is again the same situation as the M113. Its a private development which France didn't adopt.

It seems the criteria for what makes something more French changes from patch to patch.

Last time it was French parts or French weaponry, now its built in France.

The ITO VT-1 platform meets all the same criteria that yourself and others used for the suggestion for the SK-105 in the French tree.

The M113 and 987 are no more French than the ITO.

You seem to have missed the last major where the South African tree was introduced into the British tree. Hence why they are there.

A French company with arguably more US involvement. Even the VT-1 itself was not solely French, but simply involved French development with huge amounts being done by the American company LTV.

So if anything with the M113 and 987 both being American vehicles and the VT-1 being heavily American too. They are closer to the US tree than French anyway.

Why?

The UK needed a top SPAAG and has C

We don't plan to change the chassis at all as both the M113 and 987 tracked platforms are both actively worse than the ITO in terms of the vehicle platform itself. Both would effectively be a downgrade over what the ITO offers with both being no more domestic than the M113 and 987. Hence why the ITO was chosen.

F-5A was operated for training and trials by the USAF.

It was later modified into F-5C.

The M113 crotale is a private development intended for other nations. It was never for France. Its a PR photo to sell the platform.

Meanwhile the FlakRak was German. Hence why it was added to Germany.

It was a very popular suggestion, we just didn't have the P-51C at the time: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/134017-japanese-premium-p51c-34evalina34/

ITO made more sense in this case. FlakRak doesn't really work at all there and as you say would just lead to more Drama. Which I could do without ))

Apologies. My mistake as its a little hard to be compressive when your notifications are being as extensively spammed as mine are ))

F-5A

Not fully there right now. Including for Japan.

More so the reaction from French players at getting the FlakRak. It has nothing to do with major or minor nations.

It was over 3 pages, you just cant see that as we simply used to clean suggestion threads up a little to make it easier for the developers to read and process. But this was just the base suggestion. Its been mentioned and discussed since then in many places.

Almost all nations have vehicles in other trees. France is no exception to that.

Thats the reality of military combat and vehicles where nations buy, share and capture each others technology.

Regardless, this is just purely off topic now.

We have answered all questions on the French Crotale now. Any further discussions can be taken to a more appropriate topic

I missed this in le spam.

Yes, there are plans for the AGM-65 and F-4E.

Both the F-4E and F-4F are planned to have AGM-65 as they both historically should.

We haven't broken any rule and now the French also have a VT-1 platform this update.

Not currently.

Not sure if it will be this update, but there are considerations to resolve the slats matter. Right now we don't have any conformation of what the decision will be. But the devs are aware.

This is not the same. This is a static trailer which needs to stop, detach and deploy like this to even function:

FlakRakRad is a singular self contained unit

Nobody has said that domestic or other new vehicles are not already in development. But they simply are not ready for this update.

There is at least some content for Japan this patch.

Thats not how things work.

The vehicles have not even arrived on the dev server yet. We are not remotely close to a definitive cost.

The most requested French aircraft for years is also being introduced with the Dassault Mystère IV along with a requested VT-1 Crotale platform, after the Mirage IIIE, SK-105A2 and MARS 15 last update. Directly what is being asked for is being added for France.

Not exactly accurate to say France is getting the minimum here. Far from it.

Ah yeah hi, can I get a cancellation and removal of one Dassault Mystère IV please. Turns out they don't want it after all that.

BR is a dynamic system. If the aircraft doesn't suit that BR then it can change. I would have thought its a good complement that its superior to the MiG and F-86s

At least for the time being, the Strv 122s remain some of the very top tanks in game. New shells are not planned any time soon.

Added before we had South Africa and fits Germany more.

BR has quite literally nothing to do with this aircrafts addition now. We said for quite some time, it was on the cards.

We don't always add vehicles at top tier and sometimes gap filling vehicles are added. Additions are spread out over time for everyone.

Mirage IIIE was just added last update and will be moved to Rank VII with the IIIC.

Dassault Mystère IV, a heavily request jet fighter will be joining the French air tree this update.

No?

As I said before we dont only add constantly top tier aircraft, but also important and significant ones in gaps that need filling.

Dassault Mystère IV was one such requested aircraft and is an important addition this update.

The MiG-23 is something the majority of the community have been expecting for some time.

We haven't received any bug reports on the flight model of the Mirage IIIE.

Mirage IIIC was a top aircraft for a long time, even as other nations progressed, it more than held its own. We just had the Mirage IIIE last update and France can expect more in the future.

Its one French players have been asking for for some time. Its a significant aircraft in the Mystère family so its a logical addition. Regardless of those already writing it off after themselves complaining it was not added already before.

Nice conspiracy. I really don't think people honestly care what I play. I don't see hundreds of players rushing out to research something because I say its something im looking forward too?

Nope. Just haven't got around to researching it yet. One of my other favourites, the F-104J received its AIM-9Js last patch and as well as that I've just been working on other trees for the time being. Outside of the game I also have a second job and a life believe it or not too ))

Quite what this actually has to do either with the topic or valid Mirage IIIE bug reports, I dont know.

1) BR changes have not gone live yet

2) We have 9 nations in game with lots of "requested" machines. People change their minds all the time and even when we do give some people exactly what they requested (given it takes literally months to research, design, create and make each vehicle) they then change their minds even faster ))

France doesn't have a huge number of stabilized tanks compared to other nations. There are candidates, and we have some in mind for the future.

GE as far as im aware.

As we did with tanks. Economics will come later. Not with the update.

A-4E if I remember correctly.

The missiles themselves are not the sole reason for an aircraft going to Rank VII. Right now neither are currently planned to move.

Its not currently planned and even without them, its not 10.0 material.

Yes.

Nothing to really do with this topic. Feel free to create a suggestion.

Its not an excuse. France also has a long awaited jet this update. Not every patch can be a top dog for everyone.

The boxes can only be so big and im pretty sure this suggestion already was passed, but will do so again o7

It was more fun that way.

France will indeed get a Crotale this update.

Whoa there. Need to be careful about the marketing ))

In all seriousness I need to finish the Italian Naval tree so I might go for Dante first, but also I need to give Sea Vixen a good run as its another one I have a personal involvement with and have been waiting a few years to see

We already discussed this to death yesterday. Neither of these machines are any more French than the ITO.

No closer to the French than the ITO.

Still couldn't fully operate by itself and requires a separate support vehicle.

So no, its no better at all.

Except for the small factor that all of those machines are at a BR that France already has a capable AA platform in the Roland 1.

The ITO is better than all of those.

If you have valid sources that show the AMX-30 variant can do all the things you claim by itself, feel free to submit a suggestion. But all of the current sources the developers have point towards the fact it cannot operate by itself as a singular unit without a support vehicle.

Regardless, this has already been discussed to death and answered serval times here. So if you want

At the risk of the thread yet again getting hijacked, a reminder please to stay on topic.

There are other topics available to discuss suggestions and variants of vehicles. This isn't the place.

If you mean about 17 people, then yes. Its not exactly a shared view in the whole community. But the same people who kept the discussion going for pages upon pages.

As I said. We don't plan to change it as all of the other suggested vehicles are not only worse platforms in themselves, but are no more domestic in any way than the ITO is. So it achieves nothing.

I don't think they need to up their game at all. I think their game is pretty spot on ))

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/296911-slukhi-i-predpolozheniya-o-sleduyushchem-krupnom-obnovlenii-war-thunder-«krasnye-nebesa»/&do=findComment&comment=8472248

Not with the addition in the same update. As we already said, just like with tanks. An economics update will come later.

We could introduce a spin off version of the topic called "Next Major update - Suffering round-up" so we can divert all of that out of the actual rumour topic ))

Good call ))

We don't plan to reduce them simply because they don't have Commander Thermals. They are still two of the top performing tanks in game.

If that turns out to be the case, then we will review it with the next BR pass. But nothings going to be changed without the evidence to show that's the case.

Yes

Nothing new to add.

The combined armour on a number of tanks of rank VI to VII have been switched to volumetric armour. As a result, the resistance of armour protection on some tanks may deviate from the correct values.

Too soon to tell at the moment. The mechanic itself is only just ready to be tested (as you can see).

Im aware of that, you have pinged me about 5 times over the last few weeks about it. Regardless, just like any other issue, it has its time and is in a queue. I cant speed that up, unless you have more info to add to it.

We already said no new Swedish jets this update.

We have shown everything French (new vehicle wise) planned for this patch.

Im actually off today. So I had no idea what's been going on here today in the last few hours

You guys can sort yourselves out for one day right?