[2022] Feedback: Demon Hunters

In this thread, please respond with your feedback on the updated Demon Hunter class, once you’ve had a chance to test it out in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

After 10,000 years… today’s build includes early versions of Demon Hunter’s class and Havoc talent trees.

The class tree houses many of the familiar utility and defensive abilities associated with each spec and arranges them in spec-themed sections to the left (including modifiers to Fury and movement speed) and right (including Brands and options to empower them), with shared damage bonuses centered (including The Hunt and modifiers to Metamorphosis). We hope to see players take advantage of the new talent system to make choices that match their preferences, that can be tailored to meet the challenges they will face, and that create new gameplay opportunities by combining effects in ways not previously possible.

The Havoc tree takes abilities from the spec’s past and present, then puts them alongside reworked and all-new talents to provide multiple gameplay and damage output styles to invest in. Notable among them are talents that provide incentives for secondary stats like Critical Strike Chance and Mastery, as well as talents that grant significant bonuses to the skills of your choice like Chaos Strike, Eye Beam, and Immolation Aura. We hope the new trees provide opportunities to make talent builds that feel custom and distinct.

While we’re still working on the Vengeance specialization, we wanted to bring the Class & Havoc trees online so we can get community feedback as early as possible. The Vengeance tree currently in this week’s Alpha is the existing Shadowlands’ talent tree, in addition to containing all of their other abilities. This is placeholder and not indicative of their final tree, and we will be bringing the Vengeance tree online as soon as its ready. Regardless of whether you’re checking out these Demon Hunter class and Havoc talents online or trying them out in the Alpha, we hope you’ll enjoy and share your thoughts with us!

• Known Issues
  • There are several talents that are not fully implemented yet. These are tagged with NYI (Not Yet Implemented) in their Talent name.

Glide is indeed intended to trigger Momentum’s effect.

That said, the duration of Momentum’s effect is currently stacking like it does on live realms and that’s unintended. It will be changed to be a refresh in a future update.

Today’s build includes the final spec talent tree to be updated to its Dragonflight version: Vengeance Demon Hunter.

The Vengeance tree allows players to customize their offensive and defensive gameplay to conquer the game’s challenges as they see fit. Talents include opportunities to unlock familiar skills like Spirit Bomb and Elysian Decree, to choose bonuses for core skills like Demon Spikes and Sigils, and to invest into spec systems like Soul Fragments and an expanded/reworked ‘Frailty’ debuff exclusive to Vengeance talents.

In additional to the talents themselves, there are two notable changes to the base function of Souls and Soul Fragments. The first change is that non-demon Souls and Soul Fragments will require more precision to pick up manually, now requiring moving within 4 yards (down from previous 6 yards) with the intention that the circumstances where players accidentally pick up Fragments will occur less frequently. The second change increases the radius that nearby Soul Fragments will remain available for consumption via skills to 100 yards (up from previous 25 yards).

We hope you’ll enjoy your experiences with the new Vengeance spec talents, and be willing to provide feedback about those experiences with us!

Demon Hunter talent updates will be starting to roll in as they become ready, starting with Havoc tree changes in this week’s PTR build. In some cases, talents may be missing or marked as a work in progress [WIP], but there are enough changes to the Havoc tree and individual talents that we’d like to get it in players’ hands to begin gathering feedback. Vengeance and Class tree changes are coming soon.

Demon Hunter

• Spectral Sight cooldown is now 1 minute 30 seconds (was 1 minute, and 30 seconds with rank 2 talented).
• Fodder to the Flame demon now revealed by Spectral Sight.
• Fodder to the Flame demon now takes fatal damage from Eye Beam/Fel Devastation in addition to Throw Glaive.
• Fodder to the Flame buff is now granted immediately upon killing demon (was upon collecting soul).
• Metamorphosis cooldown reduced to 3 minutes (was 4 minutes).
• Darkness now has a 15% chance to avoid all damage from an attack. Chance to avoid damage increased by 100% when not in a raid.
• First of the Illidari has been removed.
• Havoc
  • Metamorphosis duration reduced to 20 seconds (was 24 seconds).
  • Demonic Appetite is now baseline for Havoc and causes souls to generate 20 Fury (was 30).
  • Fel Eruption is now baseline for Havoc.
  • Glaive Tempest cooldown increased to 25 seconds (was 20 seconds), damage increased by 15%, and damage reduced beyond 8 targets (was 5).
  • Fel Barrage has been redesigned – No longer channeled, drains 15 Fury per tick, lasts until Fury is depleted. Damage reduced beyond 5 targets (was 8).
  • Initiative’s effect is no longer triggered or denied by damage over time effects.
  • Momentum now increases damage by 6% (was 8%), lasts 6 seconds (was 5 seconds), and duration stacks to a max of 30 seconds (was 10 seconds).
  • New Talent: Inertia – When empowered by Unbound Chaos, Fel Rush increases damage by 20% for 5 seconds.
  • Fel Rush now enforces a global cooldown of 0.5 seconds (was 0.25 seconds).
  • Felblade now enforces a global cooldown of 0.5 seconds (was 1.5 seconds).
  • [WIP] New Talent: Deflecting Dance – Blade Dance deflects incoming attacks, absorbing damage up to 15% of your maximum health.
  • [WIP] New Talent: A Fire Inside – Immolation Aura has 1 additional charge and 30% chance to refund a charge when activated. You can have multiple Immolation Auras active at a time
  • Felfire Heart talent has been removed.
  • Fel Rush damage increased by 60%.
  • Unbound Chaos is now a 1-point talent (was 2) and increases next Fel Rush damage by 250% (was 200/400%).
  • Critical Chaos is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and has refund chance 30% of your Critical Strike chance (was 20/40%).
  • Dancing with Fate is now a 1-point talent (was 2), Blade Dance final slash damage bonus is now 25% (was 20/40%).
  • Blind Fury now is now a 1-point talent (was 2), Eye Beam generates 40 Fury per second (was 20/40) and has 10% increased damage and duration (was 10/20%).
  • Serrated Glaives is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and has been adjusted – Enemies hit by Chaos Strike or Throw Glaive (was only Throw Glaive) take 15% (was 10/20%) increased damage from Chaos Strike and Throw Glaive (was Chaos Strike and Eye Beam).
  • Growing Inferno is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and increases damage by 10% per tick (was 5/10%).
  • Isolated Prey has been adjusted – No longer causes Fel Rush to grant Fury; now causes Immolation Aura to deal 30% increased damage.
• Vengeance
  • Amirdrassil, the Dream’s Hope (2) Set Bonus – Chance to trigger reduced for each target beyond the first.

With the PTR build that went live moments ago:

• DEMON HUNTER
  • Spectral Sight cooldown is now 1 minute 30 seconds (was 1 minute, and 30 seconds with rank 2 talented).
  • Spectral Sight cooldown reduced to 30 seconds (was 1 minute/30 seconds), and Haste now affects its global cooldown.
  • Demonic’s duration for Demon form reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).
  • Elysian Decree has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
  • Fodder to the Flame has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
  • Fodder to the Flame now increases Spectral Sight cooldown by 30 seconds in addition to previous effect.
  • The Hunt initial damage increased by 22% and damage over time damage increased by 30%.
  • Sigil of Flame now moved to Demon Hunter baseline.
  • Sigil of Flame initial damage increased by 200%.
  • New Talent: Live by the Glaive – When you parry an attack or have one of your attacks parried, restore 2% of max health and 10 Fury. This effect may occur once every 5 seconds.
  • Unnatural Malice, Relentless Pursuit, Extended Sigils, and Misery in Defeat have been removed.
  • Unrestrained Fury is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max Fury by 20 (was 10/20).
  • Shattered Restoration is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Shattered Soul healing by 10% (was 5/10%).
  • Illidari Knowledge is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and reduces magic damage taken by 5% (was 3/6%).
  • Will of the Illidari is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max health by 5% (was 3/6%).
  • Rush of Chaos is now a 2-rank talent (was 1) and reduces Metamorphosis cooldown by 30/60 seconds (was 60 seconds).
  • Quickened Sigils no longer reduces cooldowns of Sigil skills.
  • Erratic Felheart now reduces cooldown of Fel Rush/Infernal Strike by 8/15% (was 10/20%)
  • Flames of Fury has been adjusted – Now a 2-rank talent (was 1). Sigil of Flame deals 35/70% increased damage and generates 1/2 Fury per target (was 2).
  • Havoc
    • Dancing with Fate is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Blade Dance final slash damage bonus is now 25% (was 20/40%).
    • Blind Fury now increases Blade Dance’s final slash damage bonus by 25/50% (was 20/40%).
    • Blind Fury now is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Eye Beam generates 40 Fury per second (was 20/40) and has 10% increased damage and duration (was 10/20%).
      • This change has been reverted.
    • New Talent: Demon Hide – Increases magical damage dealt by 5%, and reduces physical damage taken by 5%.
    • New Talent: Dash of Chaos – For 2 seconds after using Fel Rush, activating it again will dash back towards your initial location.
    • New Talent: Scars of Suffering– Increases Versatility by 4% and reduces threat generated by 8%.
    • New Talent: Chaotic Disposition – Each time you deal Chaos damage, there is a 7.77% chance to duplicate 33% of the damage, up to 3/7 total times. 2-rank talent.
    • Eye Beam damage increased by 15%.
    • Fel Barrage damage increased by 100%.
    • Isolated Prey now causes Immolation Aura to always critically strike (was 30% increased damage).
    • Throw Glaive now triggers Cycle of Hatred’s effect when Furious Throws is selected.
    • Soulrend is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and causes 100% of damage to be dealt over time as Chaos (was 60/120%).
    • Shattered Destiny now increases Demon form duration per 10 Fury spend (was 8).
  • Vengeance
    • New Talent: Ascending Flame – Sigil of Flame initial damage is increased by 50%. Multiple applications of Sigil of Flame may overlap.
    • New Talent: Illuminated Sigils – Sigil skills have 1 additional charge. You have 20% increased chance to parry attacks from enemies afflicted by Sigil of Flame.
    • Agonizing Flames is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases movement speed by 10% (was 10/20%) and Immolation Aura duration by 50% (was 25/50%).
    • Extended Spikes is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases duration of Demon Spikes by 2 seconds (was 1/2 seconds).
    • Burning Blood is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Fire damage by 10% (was 5/10%).
    • Darkglare Boon is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and Fel Devastation refreshes 20-40% of cooldown (was 10-20/20-40%) and refunds 20-40 Fury (was 10-20/20-40 Fury).
    • Chains of Anger now increases duration of Sigil effects by 2 seconds in addition to its previous effect.
    • Soul Carver now generates 3 soul fragments on initial strike (was 2).

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Demon Hunters in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

• There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
• Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
• Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
• There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

• Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
• Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

• Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
• Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
• Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
• Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

– The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team

We have a significant update for Vengeance Demon Hunters coming in today’s new Beta build.

Please read all about our overall philosophy here:

Vengeance Demon Hunter

Like Death Strike for Death Knights, Soul Fragments give Demon Hunters strong recovery against any type of damage, as well as strong self-healing. Because Demon Hunters consume Soul Fragments steadily, we’re not changing the rules for how often they can affect a damage event. We’re increasing Vengeance’s overall damage taken by weakening the damage reduction of talents like Void Reaver and Illuminated Sigils, while keeping the power of core abilities like Soul Fragments and Demon Spikes. They will continue to be one of the stronger tank classes at self-healing and surviving magic damage.

• Live By the Glaive now restores 2% of maximum health (was 4%).
• Thick Skin increases Stamina by 60% (was 65%).
• Demonic Wards reduces physical and magic damage taken by 8% (was 10%).
• Soul Cleave healing reduced by 20%.
• Frailty heals for 8% of damage done, down from 10%.
• Void Reaver reduces damage you take from targets afflicted by Frailty by 3% (was 4%)
• Illuminated Sigils grants 12% Parry chance (was 15%).
• Down in Flames reduces Fiery Brand cooldown by 12s, down from 15s.
• Metamorphosis increases maximum health by 40% (was 50%).
• Darkglare Boon now refreshes 15-30% of Fel Devastation’s cooldown (was 20-40%) and refunds 15-30 Fury (was 20-40).

We’d like to call your attention to adjustments we’re making in the next Beta build.

• DEMON HUNTER
  • Hero Talents
    • Aldrachi Reaver
      • Reaver’s Mark increases target’s damage taken by 7% (was 12%).
      • Incisive Blade damage increase reduced to 10% (was 15%).
      • Fury of the Aldrachi damage increased by 40%.
      • Vengeance
        • Activation threshold for Art of the Glaive reduced to 20 Soul Fragments (was 30).
    • Fel-Scarred
      • Demonsurge damage reduced by 6%.
      • Focused Hatred now increases Demonsurge damage by 50% when it strikes a single target (was 35%).
      • Burning Blades now deals 60% of auto-attack and Chaos Strike damage over 6 seconds (was 15%).
  • Havoc
    • Eye Beam damage increased by 100%.
    • A Fire Inside chance to refund a charge of Immolation Aura increased to 30% (was 25%).
    • An issue with the final damage of Blade Dance double dipping into the Nerub-ar Palace (2) Set Bonus has been fixed.
  • Vengeance
    • All ability damage increased by 15%.