Original Post — Direct link
over 2 years ago - /u/draggles - Direct link

Originally posted by Mikaelstrom

teemo got nerfed because the wildpass is expiring

If a new skinline with teemo skin, he'll get the buff again.

that's how league and wildrift works

you think we're that coordinated?

over 2 years ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by PublicRotation

u/R0guefool, I've been wondering, what kind of ban rate % would be considered unhealthy for a champion? Also if X champion gets nerfed because said champ has a high br%, where would his br% need to be (after nerf) so the balance team can say to themselves "Oh it worked, the champion doesnt have an unhealthy br% anymore!"

I know the balance team doesnt only take ban rate % into account when it comes to nerfs, but I'm really curious about this.

Sorry for the delay.

Ban rates are all relative. There isn't a strict number that is used because as the champion roster grows everyone's banrate shifts. So really what matters is a champion's banrate when compared to the average ban rate. Even within that some champions are just more frustrating to play against and have a higher banrate. So I don't have a great single number for you

This is why banrate is generally a better judge of frustration than it is of power. Champions like Rammus/Amumu have had some of the highest winrates (regardless of elo) but are rarely banned. Where as Akali was rather balanced (from a winrate perspective), but can be highly frustrating to play against and had a massive ban rate. Assassins tend to be frustrating to play against and I expect will always have a higher than average ban rate, the grey area comes in when discussing the bounds of what that should be. Then also factor in their winrate, pickrate, elos, player perception etc. Balance is as much an art as it is a science.

In Akali's case the nerfs did put in a better spot in terms of ban rate, and I expect it to continue to drop. It did leave her in a rather weak state though (previously her winrate was fine). Like I have said before we do take into account more than just winrate when balancing a champion so its a complex area.

over 2 years ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by PublicRotation

Don't worry about the delay! Thanks for the response. I love reading about what goes on during the balance process. It's very interesting.

Arent champions like Akali or Irelia hard to judge based off win rate? They're both very popular, high skill champions so their win rate gets brought down by the people who don't know how to play them and carry using them (or that's what I suppose)

It can be, but that is why we look at more than just their winrate. When looking at their winrate we don't look at at their overall winrate, but winrate at different skill levels, positions, winrate by game length, and builds. Then tailor balance changes to those, aspects. Things like pickrate, banrate, player perception, and difficulty of the champion also come into play on top of just a champions winrate.

over 2 years ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by PublicRotation

Woah, there's something like winrate by game length? That's incredible. This is the first time I've heard about it.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply! It really makes me think the balance behind this game isn't as easy as it looks like and it's actually really something complex. I have one last question, once a patch comes out do you guys instantly start working on the next patch or do you guys give it a few days to see how the changes you made to champs and such affected the game's meta?

The team actually starts working on Patch B before Patch A comes. Basically by the time the team locks a patches content we start working on the next one (but don't lock anything in) based on expectations or things we couldn't get to.

Then when patch A comes comes out we look at day early data to get an idea of what we should be working on. This might mean we discard work we had been planning for that patch, or we add things things. When first planning work for the patch the team plans for some amount of wiggle room so that we add things or adjust as needed.

over 2 years ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by Brucerino10

Yeah, soo champs like teemo who gets banned because ppl doesn't want it on the team and you guys confuse it for " teemo is too broken, he's being banned a lot". Doesn't seems so complex since you guys are nerfing off meta champs leaving op monsters destroying the rift since months.

Where are you hearing Teemo was nerfed due to people not wanting him on their team? Teemo was nerfed due to his ban rate, he has been a powerful pick for a while, last I saw his banrate was nowhere near the top.

This is why, like I have said throughout these posts, that the balance team uses multiple metrics to guide balance changes. It's not just a champions winrate, nor is it just their banrate.