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Hi guys I wanted to post this because recently i saw someone talking about it in this community and i wanted to discuss it with you guys

I'm talking about Jhin of course, the worst adc in wild rift by far. Before talking about this i just want to say that i mained him since the game was realeased and im currently in master being top 87 in last season, so disclamer: this is a high elo point of view

I will breakdown this post in different categories also to make you easier to understand what im talking about and to make this post clear in every aspect. If you are not okay with everything I said you're free to comment this and i'll gladly discuss it.

DAMAGE

Jhin has a unique gameplay, his kit relies in compensating that fixed attack speed with damage, raw damage, he is a burst damage adc, he has no dps but he is able to one shot a squishy champion, why he has so much ad? because his attack damage transforms into ad.

If you think it that's some broken mechanics right there capable of one shoting with an auto attack? how it is suposed to be balanced?

His timing in attack speed (same attack speed everytime), he is only able to shot 4 times and the last shot is a special one, has bonus execute damage and always crits, so this way he is capable to be balanced around his burst damage.

What is the problem in wild rift? he lacks that damage that i was talking about, his 4th shot percentage in wild rift is 15% and doesn't scale unlike pc version (15%/20%/25%) so in lategame his fourth shot is useless and its his most important mechanic, he only shoots 4 shots, if you're uncapable of killing someone with your combo you'll be useless when the cooldown in recharging is happening, enough time to be vulnerable to the enemy, so the bonus execution is crucial.

His base stats and his scaling are miserable in comparison of what i explained before, he isn't able to burst or win any 1v1 or defend himself against other champions, even if they are squishy, Jhin should feel oppressive. If he can't burst you in a couple autos with a little bit of lockdown...what else does he have? He places dead last in DPS for his role.

Whats the point if a vayne who relies in dps has more damage in an auto than an adc that relies in burst damage?

POSITIONING and ABILITIES

All immobile adc specially in high elo should have the basis to position well anytime in the game, so i'll explain whats the problem relative to positioning with jhin.

He is good when you have good front line (players) but he sucks ass when ur frontline is garbage and you have to carry. Also he's fine as a support adc and still needs enabling, he isn't good by himself.

Jhin is immobile and heavily relies on his team and his traps to make up for that immobility (Placing traps where enemies cross), and I have no problem with that; however, his immobility makes him an easy target in teamfights.
One thing I'd also like to point out is that in a 1v1 against an equally fed ADC will almost always be in the enemy ADC's Favour.

His cc relies also in trap slow, the trap nerfs were undeserved and made no sense, both the pve damage reduction and the slow nerf were not needed. Sure Jhin could push fast but so what? Xayah can push fast as well, i dont see them nerfing her pve damage, everyone is able to escape jhin traps easily, even if someone was slowed by the trap still has not enough slow to land the slow casting an tiny hitbox w has.

his ult nerf was dumb too, i'd trade Jhin's ult for Kaisa or Ezreal or Xayah without any hesitation. It's already hard enough to hit his shots outside of anything except a 5v5 where your team has presence and doesn't just get run over. In any other situation his ult is extremely hard to use so it should be rewarding

If your team is weak you can't ult, if you're getting flanked you can't ult, you cant ult vs Nami wave, you can't ult if the enemy is fast or has dashes cus the cone is so small , so many issues.

RUNES AND ITEMS

With the unique jhin playstyle a lot of items aren't compatible with jhin, because the meta adc items rely on autoattack 3 times or use abilities to proc his passive, thing that jhin does not shine (solari, ruined...) so he has to build exclusively energized items to be useful and cant change the itemisation for every match up so you'll have to be able to survive in early to have auseless lategame like an adc support.

talking about runes this is a general complaint in runes, there are 0 variety in rune pick being one of the most important mechanics in lol, conqueror is the only damage rune in the game, electrocute is used in niche champions or scenarios, fleet footwork is garbage in this game state and only specific champions use it for more sustain in lane, no adc runes.

Jhin can only use fleet footwork because is the only rune that sinergizes with him, but jhin lacks a lot in damage so you cant afford to sacrifice damage for lane sustain because you'll be able to win the lane yes but even if thats the case a 2 levels below with 3k gold difference kaisa will be able to one shot you in mid game meaking you useless.

You cant get conqueror with jhin because the stacks are not easy to obtain with 4 shots, electrocute needs 3 atacks to be able to do extra damage so the same thing.

they nerfed the only rune that jhin had to be able to be a early game useful adc, champion rune, so hes no longer an early game champion and neither a lategame champion because he doesn't scale

What do I propose? and opinions

I feel like they should revert the nerf they gave him on Patch 1.1 and return Captive Audience's slow from 30% to 45%. This is to make up for his lack of mobility and make laning phase somewhat more pleasant.

This will also allow him to be more useful in teamfights as to punish any stragglers who stray too far from their team.

They should change the passive 4th shot scaling to be as it is in pc version so he cant defend himself from anyone in lategame and being able to do something to a tank.

Increase just a little bit his movement speed so he can escape easily or position better.

Increase his ad scaling in late game and nerf his early game so he can change his support adc playstyle to a better burst adc lategame monster and not being overpowered.

improve the aa range to compensate his lack of mobility (in pc version has mor aa range than in wr)

Improve his ult range, in pc version his ult range and cone is huge and more useful also his shots are faster.

Collector, collector is a core item that every adc based in burst damage need, this item could make him able to execute.

Reduce his w root duration, this will nerf support adc utility in high elo to make him more damage oriented.

So as you see to be playable this champion needs a lot of things to be changed and even that i probably missed something, just wanted to remark how this champion is underperforming in this meta and also making a call for delevelopers to buff other champions for the sake of variety and make all wr players to enjoy the game better.

this is only an idea but this aplies to every champions, its exhausting to play against the same champions over and over and jhin and other champions were useless since patch 1.1 (first patch released) maybe they deserve to be played dont you think?

Also Jhin is one of the most unique ADCs there is in the game and it's really a shame to see him being so neglected

What do you prpose guys? i'll read every comment.

Also sorry for this wall of text, i wanted to express myself and just wanted everything to be clear.

Thank you!!!

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almost 3 years ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by PublicRotation

u/R0guefool (sorry for the mention) I know the balance team does take into consideration what the community think of certain champions sometimes, I've read your thoughts about A-Sol before and I'd like to know what's your thoughts about Jhin state in nowadays meta... because this is like the 3rd "Buff Jhin" post I've seen this week and I'd like to know what you think

Sorry for the very late response, these last 2 weeks have been very busy and I missed a few things.

We have seen the pain points brought up by players, like in this thread. We do take community perception into account, but to be clear it isn't the only metric we use. Everyone has different experiences with each champion, different things stick into memory, different sample sizes, and different elo ranks all come into play. I know you know this, I just want to make sure that is clear for anyone who might not be as familiar.

Currently, he is showing very strong in the early-mid game but drops off much sharper than other marksmen in the late game. I could see us shifting some of his power around so that he isn't as extreme in relation to game time.
That said I do think there are a few things worth calling out here. Jhin is a utility marksman he doesn't have the same DPS as other marksmen, nor should he. That doesn't mean that he should be balanced around bursting his targets to compensate for reduced damage over time. But rather his kit should be balanced as one thing. So while he might not output the same DPS as other marksmen he does bring a lot of utility, 3/4 skills all have some sort of CC. This isn't to say that he shouldn't deal damage, but only looking at his damage and saying he is weak is the wrong way to think about any champion. If we were to push him to have similar damage outputs as others we would need to pull back on the utility he brings. I would call this an anti-goal because we do want him to be different, and lower damage+higher utility can highlight those differences.
This is similar when talking about his ability to duel other Marksman. It's totally possible to have a champion with more burst who is great at dueling, but Jhin isn't designed to be great here. Going back to his role as a Utility Marksman he does rely on his team and helps set up/catch opponents. He shouldn't be dueling.

We see similar feedback with Ashe, where her utility necessitates her dealing lower damage or she becomes the dominant pick. We could pull some utility off her kit to make room for more damage, but then we fall into the same kind of traps that makes all marksmen feel very similar.

Regarding Runes/Keystones, I do agree that Jhin (and other champions) could use some love when it comes to choices around their keystones. His passive puts him into an odd spot where typical Keystones don't feel great, this is the same on PC, but it isn't as pronounced. I'd say that we want champions to feel like they have at least 2 Keystones that they feel they can take. Obviously, some are rougher than others here, and we won't hit this mark 100% of the time, but I think that would be a decent place to be (though data shows it isn't as bad as people think).

EndStep also does a patch review on his twitch channel after any of our patches goes live. He talks about the balance team's thought process behind each change and answers questions. I highly recommend checking these out if you're interested.