Original Post — Direct link

I mean champs that aren’t there for team fighting, aren’t there to farm montages and kills, but are there to win the bloody game by popping towers and the nexus. I don’t necessarily mean “split pushing,” as that term itself causes people to vomit blood, I mean champs that don’t need kills to shred objectives.

Basically a “hard-carry” but who hard-carries objectives instead of kills and “lcs outplays.”

I find almost all of my games that I win involve me taking the initiative and taking towers down while my team is farming kills mid like 2004 “road bads” in warsong gulch. I rarely ever see a jungler do anything but “gank” lanes like reddit “wisdom” demands, leaving every objective as free.

So what would you describe as good champions to focus objectives on? Don’t need many kills, don’t need to try to show off or fight, but you actually contribute to the only thing that matters here: objectives.

I just don’t care about the kill-centric, “PRO PLAY GIVE ME MONEY AND REDDIT GOLD!” meta of this game when it is totally the opposite of what you need to win. hots had the “specialist” class specifically for this back when that game wasn’t murdered into being a lol clone.

I find that both jinx and ad kai’sa are masters at this, but adc has possibly the least impact on the game.

twisted fate does this better than anyone but he is so frustrating if your team has been eating paint.

crit akshan is great, but still requires a team that knows what they are doing.

gragas tank is great for this but not an enjoyable kit or look.

olaf tank can do this even as top lane.

Who else?

External link →
26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Generally, this would be split pushers like Singed or Jax, but Nunu is the BEST at controlling neutral objectives (Drake, Elder Drake, Herald, and Baron).

26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by RedKingDre

Does Ziggs fall into the same type? I mean, his A2 is literally a turret executor.

Oh ya I would put Ziggs in here for sure. His tower damage is a huge part of why he is so popular in Elite and pro play.

26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by SmallIndieCompany

How come you guys never reply in the posts complaining about trolls, afkers, and bad players? Are you guys purposely ignoring the problem?

We have plenty of smarter people than me working on these kinds of problems. But I haven't worked on teams that deal with those kinds of issues so I can't speak to much. So it makes much more sense for me to stick to areas where I can at least pretend I know what I'm talking about.

26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by alltodanceagain

I agree on these, but I think the game has a severe systemic problem.

I just played a game where I singlehandedly split pushed ALL three lanes to nexus as jinx. We had all tier 2 towers still up and they had nothing. We still lost. I repeat: the enemy team had no towers for well over 10-15 minutes before the game ended, and we still lost because 4 of my teammates were playing aram.

the 27 kill akali (yes, TWENTY-SEVEN KILLS) was constantly flaming me for not fighting mid. the two others on my team were telling me to uninstall or to commit suicide. our jungler didn’t even have smite but it didn’t matter because he was ganking all game anyways.

My team spent ALL game in mid farming kills since minute five. We lost multiple lanes because of it. I then decided to just go all focusing objectives.

when my team aced the enemy team multiple times, they just sat there waiting in mid for the enemy to come back. they totally ignored dragon and baron. they ignored THAT THE ENEMY BASE HAD ZERO TOWERS LEFT! the whole thing was surreal.

People who play pc league will tell you all sorts of insane and terrifying things for even questioning teamfighting, and will say a tower down is worth less than one kill.

Why don’t you actively discourage this? The game is nearly unplayable if you want to win the straightforward way not because of anything in the game but because you reward kills so heavily with shiny graphics and loud noises that people ignore winning for the sake of pentakill montages.

When people say “elo hell” they aren’t talking about bad matchmaking but about a player base that refuses to understand what the win conditions are. This is why people are miserable even in high ranks.

I'm sorry you had a bad game, I truly am but this sounds like you're talking about a separate issue than who can take objectives, in fact from what you're saying it sounds like you could have taken them with anyone.

If the enemy team had no towers left for 10-15 minutes you might want to group with them for team fights, not a lot else you can go for at that point anyway, and you should be at full build. Plus fighting in the mid lane when the enemy has nothing likely means you win from the side lanes pushing anyway, especially after scoring an ace, the minions alone should do the brunt of the work.

The game does tactically discourage teams from ARAMing mid, this is what the other two lanes and objectives do. I'm not sure what you mean by winning the "straightforward way" team fights have, and always will be, a valid and common tactic.

Regarding the "shiny graphics and loud noises" this is typically called "juice" and really makes something feel good. But it also provides critical information when fights can be chaotic and it can be tricky to tell if an enemy has died or escaped. This is much less critical with towers, that don't have the ability to escape and often be taken without an opponent present.

It sounds like the issue you are talking about has much less to do with what champions can take objectives, and much more to do with team coordination. And I agree this can be frustrating I personally prefer playing the game with a group of friends because I find the coordination is a major driver for myself. I'd suggest grabbing a group of friends and doing the same, then you can decide when it's best to take objectives or group mid.

26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by whackholez

Step 1) pick nunu Step 2) get to objective first Step 3) spam ping objective and attack when it spawns Step 4) profit

Step 5) Ride your Yeti off into the sunset without looking back at the explosion.

26 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by alltodanceagain

That match WAS with a full group of my friends!

That game was just a punctuation to my point. Both literally and figuratively as it was the first game I had after making the thread! I also only bring it up because you are apparently a riot employee and this is a “systemic issue.”

kills are celebrated, objectives aren’t. This leads to the community going insane in many ways. It’s hard to win the game when people are confused as to what winning actually is.

You CAN push as any champion, you can take down objectives as any champion, but others do it better. Jinx is one of the best for it mid/late game, Kai’sa is better but has a rough early game. The problem is adc’s by definition are team-reliant.

For example as to what the point of the thread is: People always like “hard carry” champs for playing because you don’t need to rely on other players. Now what if you like to focus on objectives and aren’t a kill-based player? What are the “hard-carry,” objective-based champs who can focus towers without needing to worry about your team? That’s the point of the thread.

As for a “straightforward win,” I mean winning as fast as possible. There are a lot of opportunities missed in games because people chase kills when they could just push in the nexus at 15 minutes. The game I mentioned just had the most absurd example of people just sitting around mid waiting for respawns. MANY times I could have won a game but people somehow believe that you can only enter the enemy base at full build after an ace. So they will just stand around farming kills and minions more to get full build when they could have won the game ten minutes earlier.

Of course even if you have a kill advantage, all the enemy team has to do is push or freeze a lane to let minions stagnate at the corners before going right back to mid to fight. Were I to split push (because we all know none of the people playing aram are going to do it), I would get flamed at best. No juice there, even triple kills or a streak gets more of a “pop off” than killing the nexus!

Just yesterday I had a herald stolen from me because four of my team (including the jungler) left the objective at half health to chase one enemy halfway across the map. I stayed and I figured my team would find the enemies and engage as a distraction but all four of them got destroyed by the runner and a friend.

These are extreme examples, but they are example of people chasing the “juice” no matter the cost. It doesn’t happen every single second of a game like I experienced today, but it does happen in small doses enough that turns a win into a loss.

So yes, it is a team coordination problem, but that’s why the most popular champions are ones that don’t need their team to perform. I am just wondering if there is an onjective-oriented equivalent.

I mentioned twisted fate in the original post as he is seemingly made for this, but even he is team reliant because you can’t make big plays AND pick up slack because top lane is getting pushed because your garen went to farm kills mid. You can do one or the other.

I want one who can 1v9 the game by focusing on taking towers and objectives rather than on kills.

Kk, if you're looking for someone who can 1v9 carry by focusing on taking towers/objectives than I think Singed, Jax, Riven, Fiora (really take your pick of a split pusher) is going to be your best way to go about it in a way that involves as little team interaction as possible. Ziggs is great at taking towers, but generally can't handle well on his own vs these champions.

Neutral objectives are always going to have a larger focus on team coordination but if you want to make sure that you don't need to rely on anyone to secure the objective than you should be the jungler, and Nunu is going to be the best for securing these.