[2022] Econ/Camo Separation Q&A #2: Second DevBlog Dropped Today

Some more information has come out in our Second DevBlog on the Economic/Camouflage Separation. I'll be here for a while to take questions and feedback~

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I'll highlight some of the new information here before we begin, though!

New Calculator is Automated!

First off... we have an automated Conversion Webpage for the NA Server (there are ones for the other servers in the DevBlog, too).

Log in and check out: https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

(Note: If you're having issues, please Log Out and Log Back In to refresh it)

Co-Op Service Cost Reduced Further!

Co-Op will drop a ship's Service Cost by 35%.

Tier 10 Perma-Economic Bonus Gets Some Extra Credit!

The +45% Credits is being bumped up to +50% Credits~

You can see the Conversion Tables below <3

Permacamos Converted! - (Normal Ones AND SPECIAL ONES!)

Normal Bonuses

and the Special Ones~

For those that Missed the "Flags" area from the First DevBlog:

New Container Types for Bonuses, Camos, and Combat Signals!

Costs of Expendable Camos (if you want to use them)!

Working for me:

I can also expanded the Signals or Camouflages section and see my current inventory:

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It's a typo, good catch! Being fixed right now.

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Missouri was covered in the first DevBlog. It'll have a normal Tier 9 Perma-Economic Bonus, but those with the +30% Credits Combat Mission will have the +30% Credit permanently added to their Perma-Econ Bonus.

I can quote the section from the original Dev Blog. I'll do that now.

There are multiple Calculators because we have multiple servers. The one for NA should be here: https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

This is too specific to have an answer for at the moment.

If you'd like to purchase something for Community Tokens I would recommend trying to get Community Tokens from helping the PTS or watching Twitch Streams.

I've passed this message on to see if this can be figured out. Moment please~

I added the section from the first DevBlog. Hopefully that will be enough.

Can you glance back at the OP and see if that feels clear enough?

Good to hear. I was just told that would be the best action to take after asking internally, too.

PSA: On "Perma-Visual Purchasing"

Question:

"Question on the Econ/Camo thing:

A Player has a Tier 10 Tech Tree Ship with no Perma-Visual or Perma-Econ Bonus



They purchase a Perma-Visual for 200 Doubloons.

They have 1 Perma-Visual and 200 Doubloons Spent Total

They purchase a Second Perma-Visual for 5,000 Doubloons

They have 2 Perma-Visuals and 5200 Doubloons Spent Total...

...do they have a Perma-Econ Bonus from spending 5,000 Doubloons on the second Camo?"

Response:

You purchase your first perma-visual for 200 doubloons.


Then you purchase your second perma-visual for 5000


Then you purchase your first eco bonus for 4800.


You have eco bonus and 2 visuals for the total price of 10 000.

In the current, pre-change system:

you pay 5k you get perma-visual and permanent eco bonus.


You pay 5k more. Do you get another eco bonus? No. You pay 5k for the second visuals.

I'll add that to the OP. Let me figure a place to fit it in.

It's not meant to contain ALL THE INFORMATIONS! because there's just so much to cover. I was aiming more for a FAQ kinda thing to head off some basic questions early.

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Edit: I can't recall where the "Clean All The Things!" meme came from, but it's too good to forget

The removal of "Service Cost Reduction" is countered with the addition of "+%% Credits". You "earn more" Credits to counteract having a higher Service Cost, so the net effect should be similar.

This system is the same as the current one in terms of Bonuses. You select them and you can choose if they automatically get used again just like Signals do now.

The Perma-Economic Bonus is even easier then using a Permacamo. It's just literally always on once it's acquired. You can't not use it.

There's nothing weird about this. The ship will earn as normal and you can choose Expendable Bonuses to use just like people use Expendable Camos/Signals now. That's the same.

If you have a Permanent-Economic Bonus, then there's a permanent addition of resources every time you use the ship which is not expendable.

You don't need flags like I have. I whaled for things and have a lot of flags. They're going to convert into Expendable Bonuses for me.

It allows players to pick whatever Visual they want. Currently, you are forced to use a certain Visual to make use of the Economic Bonuses attached to the Camo. In the future, you won't.

Also, the clutter of 15+ Flags and player knowledge of "stacking mechanics" will be replaced by a simple system of "Pick the size of the Expendable Bonus you want to use". It's cleaning up clutter from all the years.

The Inventory will offer the option to break Bonuses into smaller Bonuses.

An 800% XP Bonus could be split into 4 x 200% Bonuses. They could further be broken down into 8 x 100% Bonuses. It'll be free to do in the Inventory.

Why would you assume that we would give less stuff than we do now? If there was an issue, we'd just give out less stuff already.

This process is dual purposed:

Opening Visual Options to Players

Yes, Visuals matter a LOT to our players

Reducing Clutter/System Build-Up

This can also be known as "Tech Debt" - Things build up over the years and become more complex and filled with stuff. Sometimes it's worth going in to simplify it and clean it up.

We already have the ability to make Economic Changes. There is little use in shaking the Coke bottle before opening it when you could just open it normally and save yourself the hassle.

We elected not to add a Combine feature. There would certainly be people that would enjoy using it, but our game is meant to be played over many matches. Condensing bonuses together to blitz out rewards in high-return Operations, Clan Battles, or other events could have a detrimental effect on our Economic balancing.

-20% Service Cost on the Black is currently:

60,000 x .2 = 12,000 Credit Reduction



in Co-Op Service Cost is Reduced Further by 25% (-35% after the Conversion)


45,000 x .2 = 9,000 Credit Reduction

Changing the Service Cost Reduction into a +10% Credits Modifier means a player needs to earn 120,000 Credits to even out. If the Player earns more than that, they Gain Credits.

For Co-Op, it would be 90,000 Credits Earned base to Break Even.

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Plus, Co-Op is getting a 12.5% Increase in Credits Earned. And the Service Cost Reduction is increased to 35% for Co-Op. Those will help even more.

From a Co-Op Game Just now:

Earning 117,266 Credits I would receive:

117,266 x 1.125 (because Co-Op Earnings are increasing) = 131,924 Credits (With No Premium Account)

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With having the Black's Croc Camo now, I'd have +10% Credits as a baseline Permanent Bonus.

It would have gained me:

131,924 x .1 = 14,511 Credits

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Co-Op Service Cost Reduction is going UP to 35% off:

Curr. Version: 45,000 x .8 = 36,000 Base Co-Op Service Cost

New Version: 60,000 x .65 = 39,000 Base Co-Op Service Cost

... The new Version of Co-Op would cost you 3,000 Credits More... but you earn 14,500 more Credits... so you Make More Money using this example.

Do me a favor. Actually play a match and give me screenshots of how you play the game.

I can do the math to tell you what would happen.

Just play a game or two and give me the amount of Credits you made. I only need the first line, like this:

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I can calculate everything from there.

Please log-out of your account on the webpage. Then, log back in.

That's been helping others.

@AdmiralThunder

To correct something. The ability to break Bonuses down into smaller Bonuses will be in the "Inventory" screen, not the "Armory"

I corrected the previous post.

Just play a game in any ship. Give me the numbers you make. I can run the numbers to give you an understanding of what would be different.

I realize this is a lot of stuff to process, so I'm hoping if you can just give me an actual example of your experience that I can translate that in a way that gives you a direct understanding of what's happening.

I don't have specific information on if/what non-available Visuals will be returned. This is about the Economic Aspects of the change more then anything.

Your "Service Cost Reduction" is at 32%. Can you tell me what % your Clan's Service Cost Reduction is? I'm guessing it's 12%, yes?

Update: Confirmed it's 12%. Will run the numbers in a moment. In a meeting right now.

Post-Change:

Non-Premium Time:

Base Credits: 103,321


Service Cost: -34,320


Ammunition: -15,400


+10% Credits: +10,332


Total: 63,933 Credits (18,093 more Credits then current)

With Premium Time:

Base Credits: 154,982


Service Cost: -34,320


Ammunition: -15,400


+10% Credits: +15,498


Total: 120,760 Credits (28,999 more Credits then current)

Note: You have a +200,000 Credits from a Combat Mission Completion. I will not be totaling that for the numbers below to make them more "clean".

Post-Change:

Non-Premium Time:

Base Credits: 96,112


Service Cost: -85,800


Ammunition: -30,000


+50% Credits: +48,056


Total: 28,368 Credits (24,235 more Credits then current)

With Premium Time:

Base Credits: 144,168


Service Cost: -85,800


Ammunition: -30,000


+50% Credits: +72,084


Total: 100,452 Credits (53,602 more Credits then current)

I'm hoping not to be a human calculator for the next several hours, but this is the easiest way to allay fears.

Was this helpful for you?

I need to redo the numbers. The standard Tier 10 Permacamo has +20% Credits as well as the Service Cost reduction. I'll revise the numbers on the prior post.

Actually, I don't have to redo the numbers. From the DevBlog:

It's getting bumped up to standard Permacamo levels.

Please just play a few matches and provide some results. The only way you're going to know if this will help or hinder you is by giving me examples that I can return actual data with.

A win in a Clan Battle setting provides a consistent 2,500 Base XP. Clan Players will use powerful Spring Sky camo and stack Signals to receive large payouts. While they could lose the match, it's fairly safe to use them early in a season for very consistent returns.

Also, Operations are repeated and can provide excellent, consistent payout. For instance, a KSF member is extremely studied at Narai farming:

These returns are fine in general. However, if players have years worth of things combined, push them all into some of the highest Bonuses, and then use them for consistent payouts... it could be a remarkably large influx of resources. As such, we have elected not to Combine Bonuses, but we will allow players to break them down if they're prefer more bonuses over many games as opposed to higher bonuses over fewer games.

I am not in the department that handles these things directly, but my understanding is that our Economy is balanced around "Returns for Effort". As in, to reach XY amount of Returns a Player is generally expected to performed XY amount of Battles. This can be in relation to Combat Mission win conditions or simply in relation to resource accrual.

For instance, it might be expected to take 50 Battles so go from Tier 8 to Tier 9. That can be circumvented by Signals or outside intervention through Free XP, but there is still an expectation of a Baseline being 50 Battles to achieve that specific thing. Knowing that alteration is a possibility is part of the normal complexity of the system, but there still has to be a Baseline expectation in order to plan around at a foundational level.

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In terms of the Conversion, we are looking at it in the way you are describing. "Expected output of the aggregate is X, so we're trying make Y a similar or better aggregate amount". Still, the economic foundational principles in the game still need to remain relevant, so we are expecting the Resources earned to be collected over many battles as opposed to few.

Post-Change:

Non-Premium Time:

Base Credits: 117,443


Service Cost: -18,564


Ammunition: -3,102


+5% Credits: +5,872


Total: 101,649 Credits (19,635 more Credits then current)

With Premium Time:

Base Credits: 176,164


Service Cost: -18,564


Ammunition: -3,102


+5% Credits: +8,808


Total: 163,306 Credits (29,095 more Credits then current)

The new Expendable Bonuses are similar in concept to Signal Flags, they're just condensed in a simplified format. I don't believe we've released specific details on how to acquire them, but you should expect similar methods of distribution to how Signals are made available now.

There will be a direct purchase via Doubloon option available. But like Economic Signals, you should expect to receive them through play/missions/containers.

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The Permanent Economic Bonuses will be available, but only the basic ones. The special/abnormal bonuses from specific camos will go away (though players will retain any better-than-normal bonuses that they have before the Conversion takes place).

I don't believe we've announced an ETA yet.

Yes, the Expendable Camos will remain but without the Bonuses (as they will have been extracted and converted to the new system). At that point, you can use the Expendable Camos for visual fun or sell them for Credits.

It would be 48 for all the bonuses. Each bonus would be worth 12 Doubloons.

You can already direct purchase Economic Signals for Doubloons in the game, for instance.

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There is some information in the DevBlog for comparison purposes.

They will stay in your inventory as Expendable Camouflages. They won't have any bonuses or game impact, just a dressing you can put on your ship.

If you have no interest in retaining them, you can sell them for credits.

Can you re-state this question? I'm actually not sure what you mean?

Premium Time gives additional Credits and "Earned XP". It affects both as a Base Value so that the other Signals/Camos/Bonuses extrapolate their amounts off the "Base Value" that is correct for whether you have Premium Time or not.

Both screen are shown so a player without Premium Time and see what they could have earned, while those who have Premium Time can see what they have gotten compared to if they did not have Premium Time. The split nature of the window is helpful for information purposes.

It means that the first Perma-Visual that you purchase/buy in the Exterior Tab of the Port for the ship will be discounted. The first perma-visual is 200 Doubloons, the ones purchased after are not.

From what I am told, you retain the ability to purchase a reduced price Perma-Visual for a ship until you have actually purchased a Perma-Visual for the ship from the Exteriors tab.

If you had received a Permacamo or Perma-Visual for a ship through an event of some sort, that was not "purchased through use of the Exteriors tab" and would not be counted as your "reduced price" first purchase.

Additive. The entire system is moving to a more simple format.

The current multiplicative/additive stacking system has a wealth of math to be dealt with, which is part of the reason why the DevBlogs have spreadsheet calculators to help decypher the nitty-gritty.

I used that as an example of why we are not providing a "Bonus Merging" option in the Inventory after the Conversion happens. We have a "Bonus Splitting" option which will be available.

From an earlier post:

@ThisIsClassicwas making a point which I read as: "If my Bonuses are going to net me [total amount of Resources], why does it matter if it takes me 200 Battles or 400 Battles? The Bonuses retain the same value, so I'd prefer faster returns."

My response pointed out that part of our concept is that Resources are attained over many battles. While the Spring Sky/Full Stack and Asian Lantern/Full Stack may not be able to reach the same high returns in their respective Comm XP and Free XP areas, they should be the only outliers.

The size of the Bonuses Massive returns are still possible, but we still prefer people attaining resources over battles as opposed to making a system that directly fabricates Highest Bonuses to be used in few repetitions of controlled circumstances.

Go to the page, Log Out, and then Log In. This is the fix for it not working.

The Conversion gives 1 of each Booster as a baseline, so everyone gets at least one of everything.

The highest bonuses are expected to be very rare. They are representing a very rare camo + a full set of Econ Signals and Rare Signals, so that's quite a lot of oomph in a single use.

"Those who have more than one flag with economic bonuses (except the KotS one) will get a level 2 bonus."

So having two flags with bonuses would convert to the Level 2, yes.

It was clarified to me that the reduced price Visual is available for "your first purchase of a perma-visual in the Exterior tab". That would not be affected by receipt of a Perma-Visual from an event.

Will have to double check on that. Going to have to be tomorrow at the earliest.

No update yet, no.

Can you ping me tomorrow mid-day to remind me to re-ask?