[2022] Co-Op Ruined Part II (PVE Thread)

@BillT
We may have some news for you coming up soon that has you feeling differently. When it does, please let me know what you think

There isn't "lowered earning" when there are same number of bots on the field to be shot at. While the economic rewards of Co-Op aren't as high as in other modes, bot pathing isn't related to that in any way.

This is correct.

It's very possible that a player's ship is being spotted early enough that there are bots attempting to path to it instead of simply charging forward on their side. To alleviate this issue, don't be afraid to fire off a few rounds before you can see any enemies. This should increase your detection range and allow for nearby bots to "latch" onto you and stay on your flank.

---

As mentioned in a different thread, we are continuing to work on AI Tools which will aid us in general. Those tools will allow us to return Operations that have been removed, and will make working with these situations more easy once they are finished.

The reduced Aiming Accuracy has been noted. There were changes done on our end that were implemented into 0.10.11, but those changes still seem to have a way to go to meet the satisfaction of many Co-Op mains. We are working on AI Tools which should assist us once we have them finished.

---

"Why according to the developers is PVP considered World of Warships' main mode of play?"

Because Random Battles IS the primary mode played by the majority of our players. This is where most of the games are played, so this is where the ship concepting, balance, and iteration is done. While we have additional modes of play that are both PvP and PvE in nature, Random Battles is the method by with most players interact with our game.

"Other than what 'the data says' I'm having difficulty understanding why there needs to be a 'main mode' at all."

It's not about Designers arbitrarily deciding that one thing is more important than the other. It's about understand where the playerbase is and what the playerbase wants.

While there are players that are concerned about their feedback not being acted upon, that is more because of the iteration time required in receiving, verifying, iterating, testing, re-iterating, testing, and lastly implementing. While not all feedback is acted upon, the most looked at feedback is commonly going to be that which comes from the most played modes in the game.

Put another way, Dev Time is limited, so there's always an attempt to get the most done for the most players possible, which is the simple reality of Games-As-A-Service.

"Other than I (and undoubtedly others) wanting to know from our Community Managers what improvements and/or tweaks we can expect in the next patch or this year to Co-Op and I would also very much appreciate answers to questions that have bothered me for some time."

In the Game Industry, the general rule is "Never promise what you aren't about to deliver", so please understand that I'm not able to give a roadmap or anything on our intentions for any specific mode.

That being said, we are working on AI Tools which should allow us to work more quickly and effectively on AI Related tasks. As Co-Op is important to you and everyone here in the PvE forum, it is therefore important to me to make sure your voices are heard. I've been performing an outreach to this section of the Community and hope to see some pain points lessened, though "Never promise what you aren't about to deliver" is always going to apply in my interactions here.

"How do you respond to the game being referred to as World of Torpedoes?"

There's not really a response other than to say that players are going to have different thoughts on different aspects of our game. You may dislike Torpedoes intensely, but others in the thread alone have stated their acceptance of them.

The idea of reducing Torpedo Damage by 75% seems extremely unlikely to happen, as Torpedoes aren't characteristically a massive threat unless being launched from an extremely close distance. The interactions that happen at range are much less likely to involve Many hits as opposed to 1 or 2, and even then it's hard to get those 1 or 2 hits since Torpedoes have such a significant delay from when they are fired to when they caught up to their intended target.

Every weapon will have its strengths and weaknesses. More experienced players may continue to dislike X or Y aspect of the game, but part of the game is overcoming obstacles to achieve Victory despite the challenges you face.

There might be a "closest enemy ship" interaction. Enemy CVs seem to have a bearing for the nearest ship on their side even when they are undetected. It's possible this also happens for ships in general and causes bot movement behaviors to be impacted.

I'll see about checking into this.

As AI Tools are being worked on, it's also possible that this is something that could be addressed by them. If that's the case, it's likely any fix would be done at that time as opposed to try to open up the hood and tinker with an engine while it's in the middle of being replaced.

I'd like to draw folks' attention to the latest devblog: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/263 Changes to bots

The bots' AI system was completely updated. This will allow us to set up bots for different battle types and game situations easier and faster.

Due to this update, the algorithm for the behavior of bots in Training battles was simplified on all difficulty levels. We do not expect any noticeable changes to bots' behavior in Co-op battles, Operations, and other battle types. However, since this is a massive update of a whole AI system, it's difficult to assess the effect of the change instantly. We will keep an eye on how the change affects the bots' behavior and make adjustments if necessary.
- Reworking the underlying AI of the bots across the board should open up the ability to more effectively alter their behavior as we move on. You PvE folks have been extremely patient and I appreciate it. I am hopeful that this change will be the right setup needed to give the PvE community something they value.

I'm not at liberty to say exactly how it will change at the moment - as it says in the devblog, the underlying mechanics of the AI is being overhauled, so a few things will change - but more importantly it will make future adjustments easier