[2023] Does anybody still take DFAA over hydro?

When I played Ranked in a Hindy on my Free-to-Play account, I ran DFAA. Hindy has improved Hydro compared to other nations, so it was seen as rather controversial.

I did it for a few reasons:

I'm known for CVs and like to point out AA mechanics and uses when possible.


Ranked is a smaller format so it's common for positions to be more isolated.


I would rarely be put in a position of having to charge into a torp DD or brawl others in sections with islands.

I would try to position right behind my DD's detectibility so I could help win the DD trades.


After DD trades, much of the game is being at a distance that can throw off battleship shell aim, so there's a healthy distance moreso than not.

In general, I preferred feeling more comfortable in my ability to take the position I wanted as opposed to having Hydro for more "in case of" situations. Oddly enough, the logic mirrors why Hydro is the standard as CVs are more of an "in case you see one" situation, though Ranked does tend to give a fair idea of what's in queue before the match forms.

This was a match in a Donskoi with DFAA that had some rather clenched moments. I probably had the 2 point talent which makes for more powerful Priority Sector (as AA interacts multiplicatively), but I don't believe I was spec'd in more than that and an AA flag.

I don't really know how to answer this question because I can't recall a time where that was ever something that concerned me. It may have happened once or twice over the course of thousands of games, but I couldn't relay a specific example off the top of my head. As a CV player, the only ship I can recall feeling a notable reduction in AA from over the course of a game was a Kremlin as her AA was nerf'd long ago to make it very destructible (I believe the mount health was reduced by 50%).

This isn't one of the ships you listed, but I don't often play any of those ships so I don't have replays to provide. Hakuryu however can absolutely be deplaned even though she is considered among the strongest Tier 10 CVs (if not the strongest). The last while of the match is grinding was little there is left, which wasn't a lot.

How often does this happen? It really depends on the CV and the match itself. Sometimes an area of the map has collapsed in a way that requires intervention even though it incurs heavy losses. You do what you have to do.

You're welcome to look through my varied Ranked Seasons. Inevitabily there will be matches that get crazy and result in desperate circumstances. I thought I might be able to find something in a few minutes and was rewarded by finding a match where I'd run dry in a desperate situation.

AA Mechanics and Plane Reserves have not changed much since Update 0.8.7 outside of the Commander Rework which altered the available skill options for AA and Fighters. More up to date videos would be more up-to-date, but the underlying system is still the same. This is a pain point in the community as folks want to the AA system change. We have announced two closed tests regarding AA mechanics over the past several months, but we don't have any updates to provide other than we are continuing to work on this area of interactions.

I know you've written about this topic in the past, but I do disagree with you about Aux Armaments Mod 1. Doubling the health pool of the AA Mounts is not something that should be dismissed. Kremlin was nerfed a long time ago by halfing her AA mount health which was seen as a meme, but resulted in a battleship that really does get routinely stripped of AA over the course of a fight.

As for Cruisers or other ships which are more compact, explosion radius effects all the mounts in the area of the explosion, which includes broken mounts. The damage is split evenly so shells hitting a tight cluster of modules can be more resilient than expected even when some of the modules were previously destroyed as they bleed damage away from the modules which are still good.

I can certainly agree with AA Guns Mod 1 being an awkward choice. Shaving off a few seconds before being able to Priority Sector again isn't often something that yields significant results. I've tried it a few times and I don't recommend it, personally.

You may not value the choices that the player made, but he certainly valued his experience using his AA to cover himself and protect his flank. Reducing incoming damage to his flank by 10k, 20k, or more shouldn't be treated as insignificant. That health could be the different between an ally not reaching their next heal timing or getting off another salvo that finishes an enemy before they get their next heal timing.

There's an age old discussion regarding which matters more: "The Carry" or "The Support". Carry roles are much flashier by nature, but Support roles are a standard part of a team's lineup and can be very influential even if only allowing others to shine.

You're thinking of the Slot 2 module which reduces the Def AA cooldown and increases its duration.

AA Guns Mod 1 reduces the cooldown period of Priority Sector. Natively it's 10 seconds Action Time and 10 seconds Cooldown Time on a Cruiser:

Equipping the upgrade in Slot 3 reduces the Preparation/Cooldown Time by 20%, which means you can use Priority Sector again 2 seconds earlier than otherwise. This can be helpful depending on how quickly the second strike comes back in at you, but I'm not sure how often that 2 seconds plays a significant role.

None of the types you mentioned are immune to AA.

Russian CVs can drop at significant distance relative to their target which allows a reduced AA interaction, but other ships can intercept the planes en route to their target and rip them apart as they have little health.


Super CVs function as normal CVs outside of the Tactical functionality. Tactical squadrons are cooldown based, so they are not subject to attrition but the planes themselves can be shot down.


FDR is absolutely effected by AA and can be deplaned consistantly. Usually it requires Fighter assistance from the friendly CV as AA isn't often a first consideration of most players (as pointed out by this thread).


Malta is absolutely effected by AA. The replay the other player keeps referencing with his Yodo has a Malta.

This is not correct. Hakuryu's strengths are:

Great Plane Speed for map presence


Accurate AP Bombs for Citadel damage which is hard to repair


Very heavy potential damage from Torpedo Planes against isolated targets due to repeated strikes from a single squad


High plane count Torpedoes for powerful repair consumable use (2 minute cooldown)


Rocket planes with 30mm pen and a fairly tight reticle

Hak's capabilities are wide-ranging. She's not limited to attempting CV sniping and was considered the strongest CV by many known players prior to the use of consumable mod to penetrate CAP Fighters.

Would you like to play against me in a training room? I'll run the surface ship and you can pick the CV.

Let me know so I can log in and be available when you're ready.

Honestly, I just meant a 1v1. You run the CV and we'll see how many planes you have left if you can take out my ship.

It's a bit late tonight. Send me a message tomorrow and we'll make it happen~

One of the largest conversational points about AA is the question on whether it works at all or not. A 1v1 is not a standard scenario, but it does test for whether AA is effective at reducing strike capability over time and if attacks are "punishable". Further, most conversational topics do like to reduce down to 1v1 discussion even though they are not the normal expectation, so it's relevant in those contexts as well.

The offer remains open as you are a CV Player with over a 50% winrate, so you'll be able to see directly what AA can do when interacting with your air resources.

Asking me to perform in-depth research of a replay isn't impossible, but I am busy. I might be able to do something on it later?

As a general response to your points made in an earlier reply, the Petro knew the YueYang was there and angled toward him. He knew he was there because the Petro sailed forward and killed the YueYang, so he had quite a lot of information about incoming torp angles. Could he have torpedo-beats the torp spam with Hydro up? Possibly. Petro isn't a ballerina, but more time would have been useful assuming the Petro had their Hydro available for use and activated it prior to pushing the YueYang.

I haven't rewatched the entire match to see when and where Def AA was used. I just checked the end of the match to see if I was out of planes, and the plane resources were in shambles. As I said before, I did a quick search for some Match of the Day videos from my channel. The one I linked was the fifth one I looked at so it took me about 3 minutes?

Likely you're approximating this scenario:

Namely that ships are locked into a semi-fixed location with their bow pointed to a spot with minor deviation from (to simulate being bow-on to a threat).

This oft-repeated narrative is why even a 1v1 showing that AA is not useless is still useful.

That was a lot of effort. Very cool to see how much you put into the request <3

Defensive Fire's Cooldown can be reduced by a Slot 2 Upgrade, a Signal Flag which affects DFAA directly, a Signal Flag which affects all consumables, and a Commander Skill if available.

80 x .9 x .9 x .9 x .95 = 55.4 second cooldown.

Slot 2 upgrade:



Commander Skill:



Sierra Bravo signal



November Foxtrot signal

I'm not sure how many ships have non-standard DFAA, but San Diego does have a reduced Cooldown of 60 seconds base which leads to a very fast cooldown of 41.6 seconds when the above are equipped:

In case you were assuming the player was the channel owner, the video is a match from this player: https://wows-numbers.com/player/514647997,Animalul2012/

What percentage of the total CV-playing population do you think that is?

The "PvE skill check" likely refers to Flak, but it's not correct to focus on Flak damage just because it's a large damage number. Flak does have the possibility of dealing immense damage and stopping a squadron, but as has been repeated many times it's not something to expect or bet on. Personally, I think of Flak as a Critical Hit mechanic akin to each Flak puff providing a 1% chance of providing a large amount of damage, so 10 flak might equate to a ~10% chance of occurrence as an easy short-hand expectation.

Continuous Damage stacks multiplicatively. A Cruiser that has no DFAA, no flags, no skills, no upgrades can at most reach 150% output. A Cruiser that has DFAA, Flag, Skills, and a Slot 6 Upgrade for "all-in commitment" reaches up to 380% output. It's a 2.5 fold increase even without Flak ever touching an enemy plane.

Given the above range, if attacking an unspec'd Cruiser that costs 1.5 planes to strike there's an expectation of being struck twice while the CV loses 3 planes. With a full spec (for comparison's sake), the CV would lose ~4 planes on the first attack and would not be able to continue even if it wanted to (which it would not). After that interaction, the Cruiser would expect the CV to shift focus and hope its teammates were able to deal with you because it would have a series of bad trades if trying to continue interacting with you (or a teammate you choose to positionally block for).

If the Cruiser chose to take a much less invested 2 point talent for Priority Sector and DFAA, and used an AA flag because why not, the output would rise from the base 150% peak to 275%, which is an 83% increase in Continuous... again not worrying about Flak connecting. That too is enough for a 1.5 plane cost expectation to shift to a nearly 3 plane cost, which removes follow up strike capability and alters the trade expectation from the CV.

Then for easy-math's sake, if only 1% of CV players have a realistic expectation of taking no Flak damage at all over the course of several matches... then it means that 99% of CV players do not have that expectation.

If it remains relevant against 99% of the playerbase, especially when it's quad-damage buffed during DFAA, then it's not something to be removed from consideration when discussing DFAA's value.

I will say it's strange to read something saying that current non-buffed levels of AA are doing fine. Still, a player doesn't choose what level of CV player they are matched against, so if you prefer to be more independant in your positioning than DFAA can be well-suited for providing you comfort in doing that. If it's not needed, that's great. Hydro can similarly be not needed, which is also great (as it means your team is controlling the situation enough to free you of concern).

The conditional advantage of Hydro is that something be close enough to interact with the Hydro. In the absense of that, there was no advantage, though it is nice to know that it's there should it be needed.