[2022] WG admits they know the player base does not like subs.

There are plenty of ways to politely engage a company with your opinion.

People who don't like submarines are very vocal. This is not unusual - when people are happy, they tend not to make much noise about it - they just go about being content and happy.

When people are angry - they tend to make it extremely clear to as many people that they're angry. You will hear displeasure far more than you hear pleasure.

We have conducted a variety of research into whether or not submarines would be a good addition to our game and the results supported it. We don't share those results publicly because it's not normal for a company to do stuff like that. We make our decisions, and we hope that if some players don't like it, that it's something they can at least accommodate into the game experience.

I don't think I have ever seen this occur

Periscope Depth is detected at full range by Hydro. Only Maximum Depth has reduced detection from Hydroacoustic Search.

Detection options at Depths.

Surface: Normal Surface Detection, Aerial Detection, Radar, and Hydro



Periscope Depth: Reduced Surface Detection, Aerial Detection, "Submarine Surveillance", and Hydro



Max Depth: "Submarine surveillance" and Reduced Hydro (2km)

Only 3 are functionally different.
Surface, Periscope, and "Max". 30 and 60 function the same way.

What do you mean?

The information Rentsch is referencing is not current.

There are 3 "Depth States" for Subs.

Surface


Periscope


Maximum

There is no functional difference between 30m and 60m in terms of gameplay mechanics if both are within the same Depth State of "Maximum Depth".

-

If you aren't interested in playing a Submarine on live server, please try one in the Submarine Operation on PTS. The mechanics are quick to pickup with a few plays.

That's cool to hear.

Operation Wolfpack on the PTS has a variety of conditions that are required for 5-star. Correct use of depths and spotting mechanics are important for meeting the stealth objective, so it's a very effective learning ground for the mechanic-package.

To be fair, it was a fun Operation. Also, we need PTS feedback so it's a double-win to mention it here.

There were around 10+ posts going back and forth describing the 3 different "Depth States" for Submarines that currently exist. There were questions about if a 4th state existed, how the states interacted with consumables, and how depths do or do not correlate with said Depth States.

Use of Operation Wolfpack answers all of those through play. There are Radar and Hydro consumables which are used by the bots, so depth states are a necessary part of succeeding in the Operation. While an Operation is not a PvP environment, information about Depth States and Consumable Interactions is independent of PvP.

The easier way to perceive "Max Depth" is "The submarine is at or below ##m". In the case of 30m and 60m, both are equally "Max Depth" in terms of "being below ##m" as long as that number (##) is less than 30m.

The three states can be thought of:

On the Surface (not dived)


At Periscope Depth (slightly dived)


At Maximum Depth (significantly dived)

For a little bit of fun <3 Spinal Tap "This goes to 11"

Operating Depth was removed many Updates ago.

There are only:

Surface


Periscope Depth


Maximum Depth

The term "Maximum Depth" can be strange in the sense that you reach Max Depth before you've gone as far down as you can go. So, as another poster said, continuing to dive is like going to "Maximum-er Depth". Still, for game mechanic reasons, there are only the three "Depth States".

Subs don't need a nerf, brother.

If folks won't trust my opinion as a WG employee - fine - but trust my opinion as a skilled player who has played this game at every level of competition: Submarines are not overpowered. Some aspects of them will need to be watched to make sure they allow proper counterplay, but they are not overpowered by any metric. If Erazer and I (who butt heads frequently ) both assert that submarines are not "overpowered" - there might just be something there.

The in-game client tells you if you are at "Surface", "Periscope", or "Maximum" Depth.

If you are at Surface or Periscope, you are detected at full distance from Hydroacoustic Search.


If you are at Maximum, you are detected at 2km or less from Hydroacoustic Search.

Update for folks speaking in this thread:

Discussion of GoT, Star Trek, and other media does not belong in this thread. I've hidden most of the full Derails. I ask that it does not return.



Discussion about what are or are not "Debate Concepts" and "Victory Conditions for Debate" do not matter in this thread. Leave "Debate Concepts" out of this thread, please.

Both of these derail topics will be removed if they return.