[2022] After the change... of what use will camos be ?

Prices are shown in the recent DevBlog.

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Currently the "Type 2" is just a basic camo worth 22,500 Credits

She sells in the Inventory for half that

While I don't have finalized information on pricing because I haven't specifically asked that question, this is a basic example to look at for right now.

They can be given out as rewards, sure.

Typically we use the "Doubloon Value" of an item when calculating rewards for a mission. A Mission might have "500 Doubloons worth of value" for some task that requires a few battles, so whatever they end up being internally valuated at would be considered when figuring out what amount of them to give out as a reward.

The Expendable Economic Bonuses can be given out as rewards in the same way that Signals are given out for the rewards. It's functionally the same thing.

Two posts above yours I show pictures of the Economic Signals in the game. They have a Doubloon value attached and can be purchased with the Auto-Replenish feature turned on. That is a functional part of the game already and has been since I started 3+ years ago.

A DevBlog came out with followup information to the first DevBlog on the Separation of Econ/Camo stuff. The new one is here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/327

The price listing for the new Expendable Bonuses if purchased via Auto-Replenish is this

Compared to the Doubloon value of current Economic Signals, I did that math earlier today in this post.

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Expendable Boosters should be available in Containers, Mission Rewards, Event Rewards, Purchase, and whatever other ways we dream up in terms of ways to distribute them.

Yes, we are fully removing Gameplay/Economic Aspects from Camos. Permacamos are being split into:

Perma-Visual


Perma-Economic Bonus which is always on for that ship

No. Visuals will have no gameplay effect other than looking nice.

Signals are being replaced by Expendable Bonuses for a given Resource (Credits, XP, Commander XP, and Free XP). They will function similarly, but you will only choose 1 Expendable Bonus per Resource for a math (up to 4 Expendable Bonuses total per math).

Permanent Economic Bonuses are just always on and will result in additional rewards when a ship is played.

In the US, all your stuff may have an accumulated Dollar-value. Still, stuff is not the same as liquid-currency.

We're exchanging Economic Bonuses into Economic Bonuses. We're just converting old system to new system.

They still have value in that they are decorative, but you are correct that they won't be needed at all. Many players (including me) will run their ships without Camos to avoid an unneeded expense.

I have a variety of Permacamos that I've gotten through events, so I'll have Perma-Visuals for oft-played ships, so I won't be sailing camo-less all the time.

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From your perspective, you would likely just view Camos as credits to be sold if earned on missions. There's nothing wrong with getting some extra credits.

If you're asking about Permacamos, those are being converted into "Permanent Economic Bonuses". They will be "always on" as they just permanently give additional rewards with every game.

First Spoiler is normal Permacamos:

Second Spoiler in "Unique" Economic Camos:

All of your Permacamos will be split into:

A Permanently available Visual that you can use on the ship as much as you'd like.

That's the Camo/Look part

A Permanently attached Economic Bonus which will always give additional rewards.

Those are in the lists above.

If you're talking about Expendable Camos, the Economic Aspects are being harvested off of them and converted into Expendable Bonuses:

Credit Bonuses


XP Bonuses


Commander XP Bonuses


Free XP Bonuses

You can see what your current amount of stuff on the NA server will convert to here: https://worldofwarships.com/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

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You will still keep the Expendable Camos after the conversion, but they will not have any gameplay aspects.

The Economic Aspects will have been converted into Expendable Bonuses you can use


The Detection Bonus will be baked into every ship by default


The Dispersion Penalty is going away

You're talking about wanting an Expendable Camo like the Schoolbus camo to be sold for less than like 22k credits or something? You won't need to equip a Camo at all if you don't want to.

What amount of Credits do you think a Visual-only look should cost?

Other players do look at their ships as well as yours. Visuals are a huge draw for our game ("Art Department Carries Again!") so this is a larger thing that you might think.

There are some Camos which are not very pretty.

The benefits are not removed from the Player.

The player can still use the look of the camo all they want.


The player still gets the improved earning whenever they use the ship, regardless of what camo they do use (if they decide to use one since it'll be optional).

No.

The Permacamo is being broken into two parts:

A Perma-Visual option that is always available for you to use on that ship whenever you want to


A Perma-Econ Bonus that is always on that ship and earning you extra stuff regardless of what Visual you want to run.

The visual is always available to you.

The Econ Bonus is always on, always. You bought it and it's always active getting you additional stuff when you play the ship.

I'll try to give a visual aid.

After the change:

You can choose your Look

or have no Look at all if you don't want

You can choose to Equip Expendable Bonuses

This is like Signal Flags now, but it's simplified

1 Bonus for Credits


1 Bonus for XP


1 Bonus for Commander XP


1 Bonus for Free XP

Do you have a Perma-Econ Bonus?

If yes, then you get extra stuff always.

It's always on. You own it, so it's just there.

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Did this help?

Yes. You bought them and you have them permanently applied.

They will be called a "Permanent Economic Bonus"

This change does two things:

It allows players to pick whatever look they want without concern of their Earnings/Gameplay


It allows us to simplify 7 some years of Signal/Camo/Dragon buildup into a clean, basic system.

Post #40 on Page 2 of this thread addresses that.

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The Economic Aspects of Expendable Camos will be harvested (taken) and made into Expendable Bonuses to be used for Credits, XP, Commander XP, and Free XP.

You can see what your Camos and Signals will convert to here: https://worldofwarships.com/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

I answered this directly to you on Post #40.

I reiterated it to USMC2145 on Post #57.

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Our Conversion is expected to increase the value of your accumulated amount of stuff by up to 50%. We are deliberately giving more value to players to avoid issues/concerns like this.

Please check this link as it directly shows you what you have now and what it converts to: https://worldofwarships.com/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

@CaptGodzillaPig

Here's a Visual Representation of the Conversion. Let me know if this is helpful.

You can literally see what Expendable Bonuses your stuff converts to here: https://worldofwarships.com/content/economic-bonus-calculator/

Please click the link and look at the page there. You will see a picture like this:

This picture represents the "Slots you can put Bonuses into"

For the Expendable Bonuses, you can choose 1 Bonus to be active per Slot for the next battle.

If you have a Permanent Economic Bonus, it is simply always turned on. It does not use a slot. It's just always active and giving you more stuff always.

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Rather than deal with 13 different things which all add into your Economic Inputs/Outputs... there are now 4 Expendable Slots, and you can have a Perma-Econ Bonus or not if you purchase/acquire it.

I don't know where the Schoolbus camo rates on this table:

Probably under the "Single Color"? If so, that would mean it costs 45,000 Credits to use one (if you don't have one already)

Please remember though... You Don't Need To Use Any Camos At All Ever. You Can Just Save The Credits And Not Run One.

After the change, Camos provide a cool Visual for your ship... and that's it. You don't need to use a Camo after the change.

We outlined in the table above that the more complex the camo from an artist angle, the more we charge in Credits to use it per battle.

What?

Permacamos still result in Perma-stuff. Expendable Camos were mostly used for their bonuses and only for their bonuses, how do I know this...?

So we're just taking the bonus off of the camos... and calling them "Expendable Bonuses"

It's the same thing.

If you have the Expendable Camo, then you already own it. You wouldn't pay to buy a camo that you already own.

The prices listed as if you use "Auto-Resupply" because you wanted to use that look even after you've run out of the Camos you are fond of.

I'll try this differently.

If I equip this flag, do I have to pay anything to use it?

No. Equipping a Flag I own is free, because I have acquired the flag already.

That is the same in the new system.

If you already own an Expendable Camo, you can use it as you'd like


If you already own an Expendable Bonus, you can use it as you'd like.

There is no "charge" for using something you already own.

I don't have the ability to tell you that everything everywhere will be perfectly, completely the same. There are too many edge cases and outliers for me to make an over-arching statement like that.

However,

You should expect things to be pretty much the same as they are now. You should expect Bonuses from Containers, Missions, Events, Purchase, and whatever other ways people acquire them.

Signals and the Economic Aspects of Camos are being merged and renamed "Expendable Bonuses".

Think of the Economic Signal Flags now. They each buff 1 Resource. Pretend you can only pick 1 of each, but you can have them be stronger or weaker. That's this:

That's literally all it is.

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Taking the Economic stuff off the Camos means players can pick whatever camo they want whenever they want.

@CaptGodzillaPig

Perhaps it would help you to think of this:

as this:

but you have the ability to make the Economic Flags "stronger"

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That's what "Expendable Bonuses" are. It's just a different name for Econ Signal that can come in 4 varieties of power.

What is this "Resource Points" thing you keep saying?

Spring Sky (a Very Rare Camo) stacked with Every Econ Flag and Every Dragon Flag can outearn the highest Bonuses.

Asian Lantern (a Very Rare Camo) stacked with Every Econ Flag and Every Dragon Flag can outearn the highest Bonuses.

However, the size of the Bonuses really does account for Stacking in the other cases. Extreme outliers are notable, but they are extreme outliers.

The ability to Free XP new ship lines is not "useless"

The ability to Free XP entire lines to facilitate Research Bureau point acquisition is not "useless".

Tell me a Permacamo you want me to use an example. I will draw you a picture.

If I understand correctly, the System UI isn't finished yet. We can't do a video demonstration until the UI is done.

This is why I've been doing math-by-hand over the course of literally days of my life explaining this thing for over a month.

I don't agree with you. In this post: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/243969-important-message-for-the-community/ we made a commitment:

General transparency. We need to work hard on it: on the one hand, we need to pay more attention to the community sentiment, on the other hand, we have to be more transparent and explain our positions. We will create a series of publications to make our development process more transparent and to show the logic behind what we do. For example, players did not understand why the latest torpedo bug took 2 updates to fix, while a CV bug (plane losses in 0.9.9) was fixed almost instantly. They are in fact very different: the CV bug was fixed by quickly adjusting some parameters, while the torpedo bug involved game logic, and even though it was technically fixed within a week, it had to go through all regular quality assurance processes. Deploying such change through a hotfix is extremely risky for the game. This should have been communicated transparently and we will do our best to do so in the future.


In-depth communications and insights. When it's necessary we will use more specifics and will provide deeper explanations of our decisions. For example, we implemented the system for CvC ship bans, which helps us to keep the meta fresh, and we want to tell you more about how and why we use it, as it's something that our hardcore players are interested in.

As such,

We have created a 6-month Roadmap to inform players of our intentions (which the Separation was first announced on even though we had no details to share).



We released a DevBlog as soon as possible with extensive details above this change.



We released a follow-up recently with more information and a FAQ section to help with questions commonly fielded from the release of the first DevBlog.

In short, we committed to communicating more. We ARE communicating more. Saving any communication for when everything was done was what we used to do, but our Statement to the Community altered that.

I've already told you that it stays same. I've said that in multiple ways.

Here is a picture to help visual understand what will be happening.

After the end of this battle, you will receive:

[Base Credits Earned] + .7[Base Credits Earned]


[Base XP Earned] + 2[Base XP Earned]


[Base Comm XP Earned] + 1[Base Comm XP Earned]


[Base Free XP Earned] + 73[Base Free XP Earned]

Your Perma-Bonus is "always on" and is free (because you already own it).

The Expendable Bonuses you picked were either already owned (like the +7200% Free XP) or could be on Auto-Resupply (+20% Credits and +100% XP) if you didn't have any already.

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Does this help?

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/255507-proposed-changes-to-co-op-economy-are-awesome/

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/255453-the-more-i-think-about-it-the-more-i-like-the-new-economic-changes/

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/255387-econcamo-separation-qa-2-second-devblog-dropped-today/?page=3

Read these please

-50% Service Cost translates to +25% Credits.

Permacamo is +20% + +25% = 45%... but we've upped that to +50% to round it off.

While it is possible to get alpha'd off the field before you get to do much of anything, that isn't likely the norm. If this is something you dislike about the change, then you have "found your rub".

However, we have a mechanism in place to help people earn bonus credits up to a baseline point. From the recent DevBlog.

What do you mean?

It was a lot of quoting without a specific ask.

This has been a rather constant few hours of back and forth. Please just make your specific ask.

We removed Premium Consumables. That directly helped the players save money.

We removed the 8 Signal Limit to allow players to run Combat Flags and Economic Flags... that resulted in the mega-stacking that exists now. That directly helped players earn money.

We have given away Tier 8, 9, and 10 Permacamos through events and in-game grinds which were free-to-play. This directly helped players save/earn money.

We have given away Premium ships during many updates and continue to do so. They are typically Tier 7 or below, but that directly helps players save/earn money.

We give away Economic Signals in Weekly Combat Missions for just playing the game. That directly helps players earn money.

I don't know what our last interaction was. I write hundreds of posts per week. In this interaction alone, I've likely written some 30+ in the past few hours.

Whatever this "toeing the company line" schtick is supposed to mean, I don't see how it has any connection to me. You made a demonstrably false statement as we have repeatedly done things in the interest of our players. Pretending that we didn't, or devaluing what we did, does not change that reality.