Originally posted by Cougarific:
Originally posted by SylenThunder: 7 years of development is right in line with the norm for AAA titles with larger development teams.
It is?!? Name one triple-A game that spent seven years in Alpha.
Look, don't get me wrong - I love the game. But I loved it just as much 3 years ago. A little polish at that point and it's at least ready for Beta.
What I suspect is that the game did so well as an early access release the devs expanded their vision for the game, and so many players (at least half the playerbase based on posts on these Discussions) are perfectly content with a perpetually-changing game (like No Man's Sky) that the roadmap became bloated.
How many Nurse models have there been so far (with a totally new one planned for A20)? How horribad was the first one?
The difference between this game and NMS is that NMS was advertised right from the start as a next-gen game so people were pleased to see the developers taking a next-gen approach catering to always-online gaming with an ever-evolving universe.
This game wasn't, and the devs are still pretending like this was the plan right from the start. That's my only complaint. Just fess up - "We're making so much money as an early access title we see no reason to actually come out of early access".
Name one? I can do a little better, I think.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/9/2570942392194260704/#c2794999575670764925https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/4/3606765810649255730/?ctp=10#c3606765810649471056It's a long read. But, important. And to be clear, That is NOT an exhaustive list of games that took 5+ years to make. It's scratching the surface. Some game franchises (CoD, Fifa, Etc) can get away with much faster turnaround times and release every 1-4 years because they have purpose built engines, tons of stacked up resources and cut storylines from previous games, and so on, the mechanics are already fully functional, they don't have to redo much of anything as the names of guns/places/etc aren't going to change.. They basically just need to give it a fresh coat of paint, and polish the mechanics a bit so that it works in the latest iteration of their purpose built engine and then send it out. maybe include one or two new things so it doesn't seem like a carbon copy of the previous iteration.
Alpha encompasses 90-95+% of a games design lifetime. Many games take 7+ years to make, yet only do a 1-6 month closed or open beta for this reason. So yes, MANY AAA games have spent the vast majority of their developmental lifetime in Alpha. You just never hear about them while they're in alpha, They only announce the game to the public at large at E3 or something similar, or when it's going into a beta of some sort. This
dramatically skews public perception of how long it takes to actually make a game.
7DTD was different though, It not only released into early access like many other games, It did something that basically NO other company has ever done- They launched with the very first working version of the game, Alpha 1, Build 1 as they had promised on their kickstarter. We have seen every step of development from start to nearing the finish line now, Something that simply does not happen with any other game.
You do not take a game out of alpha until you have every feature you want in it because Alpha is the foundation, walls, and ceiling of your building- You don't start adding paint, insulation, and furniture until the foundation walls and ceiling are done. That's why so much of 7DTD's life time was spent with placeholder parts that are now being replaced one by one. All the icons got professionally done, Many of the zombies have been professionally redone, The remainder are probably done and ready to ship in A20, The skill system has been fully revamped and is in a place where it's unlikely to change much if at all from this point forward except balance tweaks, and much more.
Your 'suspicion' that they excessively expanded their vision is wrong. They have been adding everything promised in their kickstarter piece by piece all this time. There have been some minor additions here and there (Like all the little settings you get to select when making a save, and the revamped modding system) by popular demand, But they have stuck pretty close to their main goal of including everything promised in the kickstarter. Here's some stuff covering their progress on fulfilling kickstarter goals:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3007801544751759022/?ctp=3#c3007801544755587091https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/4/2646360608731997291/?ctp=3#c3500920360369173126I might have one or two more posts on the topic laying around if you're not satisfied.
For the nurse zombie, I don't recall there being a step before the current placeholder model- Meaning the nurse model we've had up until A18.x is the same one we've had going back to A13, And back to whenever the nurse was originally introduced. This means the update to this model coming in A20 will likely be the first one for the nurse model. Even if it had been updated before, the current model was itself just pulled off an asset store and it's predecessor likely was as well, and in any case, work on these is done by the animation and graphics team which has little bearing on the developmental progress of the game itself. It's not like the coders and such are sitting around waiting for the models to get done before progressing development, It's a parallel process.
Also, Financially...The game is probably sapping at their reserves at this point, Not making them millions. Pure speculation, mind you, but, game development costs a LOT of money, Paying wages costs a LOT of money, Owning an office costs a LOT of money.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/4/3606765810649255730/?ctp=17#c2247805152850972238Here's a loose breakdown of some of what definitely happened to the money.
Lemme be clear here, TFP's goal now is to finish the game they started- They're in it for the win, however long it takes. If they wanted money, they would have cut development at A16 or something, called it done, shipped it and started selling DLC's and began work on 7DTD2 or some other game. An important thing to note here, is that at this point the vast majority of people who were going to buy this game already have, Sales have slowed down considerably over the years, so the income is a thin trickle now from what it used to be; What they're doing now is likely at best treading water financially and at anything less than best is in the red while they frantically try to finish the game they promised. If they only cared about money, they would not be doing what they are doing.
Please do not disrespect their efforts by trying to claim they only care about money.
This has been a tired and sick Shurenai's wall-o-text. Please enjoy. I will elaborate on any point if needed.
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