[2021] Level 6 items should be craftable

Originally posted by itchyfart123:

Originally posted by ↯ℤ𝕚𝕟𝕕𝕪⛦: You still havent fully addressed why it is a supposed issue. You can do just as well with a tier 5 tool on day 100, it makes little difference since by then you have augers and chainsaws. You can easily gather resources in just a few in game hours to supply you throughout the whole horde night. seems just fine to me.

Making tier 6 craftable doesnt make a lot of since from a role play perspective. if you've mastered the art of making a supreme ultra good tool in the first place why should it have random stats that aren't intended? This isnt' minecraft where magical stats are applied lol. At least you can theorize that 2 of the same level 6 tools you found were made in different factories; of which you don't have access to.

Wall of text incoming. Apologies in advance.

Let me break this down. You claim that you can do just as well with a tier 5 tool. Technically speaking, this is correct from a functionality standpoint. Higher level tools can't do anything a lower level one can't. They just do it better. But from that standpoint, there'd be no reason to upgrade to higher level tools. Which is clearly not true. If you find better stuff, you'll use better stuff.

Secondly, you claim that augers and chainsaws can easily gather materials. Again, true, but it's a matter of efficiency. I took the time to go into singleplayer and run some tests that I'll put after this.

Thirdly, you claim that it doesn't make sense from a role playing perspective. I have to disagree. No human is capable of making two objects that are the exact same, no matter how skilled. In fact, I'd argue it's the opposite- the more skilled a person is, the more potential variance in their work. Having failures and successes is what leads to growth and those who can truly claim to be at the top of a skillset will continually be improving in it, which in turn means making errors and successes. This can be correlated as the RNG in the stats. If anything, I'd say the factory theory you mentioned actually makes more sense for having items be the same. With factories, things are produced en masse as similarly as possible. Thus it would make sense that they all have the same stats.


Finally, as I mentioned earlier, I decided to run some testing. I realized about halfway through that there were several problems with that I'll get around to explaining in a moment, but right now, I'll just throw the numbers and explanation. I started off by entering creative mode and giving myself a full inventory of level 6 augers, a full inventory of level 6 steel pickaxes, and full inventory of level 6 SMG-5s for a somewhat varied sample. Of those, I identified the highest and lowest stats so I could figure out just how much the amounts varied. Of course, this is from a small sample size of one inventory rather than directly from code, so RNG could just be RNG and potentially mess with values. But we'll assume that the values I have are the high end and low end values of a level 6 item for simplicity purposes.

For the pickaxe, the values are damage, power attack damage, block damage, stamina cost, swings per minute, and durability. The numbers I got for the high end level 6 steel pickaxe are 34/63/95/26/54/1152, respectively. The numbers for the low end level 6 steel pickaxe are 33/62/92/27/53/1099, respectively. Factoring that as a simple % of comparison, it can be seen that the high end pickaxe is just under 20% better.

Next up, the auger. The auger's values are damage, block damage, fuel capacity, actions per minute, and durability. For the high end, I have 6/31/314/311/3646. For the low end, I have 6/30/302/306/3387. That puts the high end auger at 17.5% better than the low end one.

Finally, the SMG-5. The values are damage, magazine capacity, rounds per minute, range, and durability. The high end values are 48/31/498/26/609. The low end values are 46/30/490/24/564. That puts the high end SMG-5 at 28.2% better.

Thus it can be seen that on average a high end item can perform 21.9% better (at least based on those three items). However, I realized partway through that this method of testing had several issues. Firstly and arguably the biggest was that somehow levels on items actually make stats worse on average in some cases, which I assume is a glitch. For example, the auger's fuel capacity actually tends to decrease with level. Which is really weird and probably unintended. I didn't notice whether any other stats on any other items did something similar, but it's entirely possible. Additionally, I was going to have a "second wave" of testing in which I compared items with mods and max player level with all perks. However, apparently the tooltips don't accurately reflect that, so I couldn't end up doing that. For example, the perks to increase damage and reduce stamina on harvesting tools have no impact on the tooltip's reflection of the damage and cost of a pickaxe.

I'll admit that I did vastly overestimate the amount of RNG in items, but up to a solid 20% improvement is still a huge deal, especially when you factor in other things such as using multiple items, buffs, mods, and player levels.

The thing is that, while yes, a 20% improvement is typically a huge deal.... The reality is that, There's a few important unanswered question here.

"How much of that 20% gets wasted in over-kill? And how often is that chunk wasted?"

That is to say, Take a block that has... 1,000 HP. you have a Q5 steel pickaxe that does 502 damage, and a Q6 steel pickaxe that does 600.

Both still take two swings to break the block. So the 20% increase is lost basically 100% of the time against blocks with 1,000 or less HP.

The same thing is true for an SMG. If you're killing with 3 shots to the head with a Q5, and 3 shots to the head with a Q6, How important is that upgrade really?

The truth is that it's not. It's actually a much more minor increase than you realize because it performs in over-kill territory so much of the time- And the niche scenario where it does actually benefit you are few and far between, saving you a swing here or there on a block that has between 501 and 600hp, or a single bullet on a tougher than average mob. Yes, Numerically it's a big increase- But in reality, it gets lost in action 90% of the time.

The increases matter when using Q1-Q5 items because those increases often DO push you past breakpoints, letting you do things in less swings/less bullets/less stamina/etc. But the increase from Q5-Q6 typically does not unless the player has adjusted server variables or modded things.

EG: In vanilla settings, You literally cannot 1 shot stone blocks with a steel pickaxe(with exception to the random proc of that one book series- I'm speaking strictly to the damage of the pickaxe itself.). Even with a Q6 with all it's mods and maxed Miner 69er, You'll swing at the block and....have 2hp left, requiring a second swing. A Q5 also does it in two swings. So the upgrade to Q6 is niche at best, maybe saving you a swing or two on very durable blocks like R-Concrete, which, for the most part, you're never mining anyway.


The whole topic is kindof moot, though, As unless things have changed, Q6 is a placeholder currently for 'Legendary/Unique' type weapons with special effects that will only be lootable/buyable.