A great crew for a great conversation. Nightraven is the former analyst of NRG, and has served as an analyst for countless other teams such as Cooler and K1CK.
JayBiebs is a lead Apex dev in charge of live balance.
Hodsic is the coach for TL and an outspoken voice within the Apex community.
Should be a great conversation.
External link →Hey I’m far from a lead dev haha but I had a fun time. Didn’t mean to dodge questions... when it comes to Horizon audio: I don’t see a downside to hodsic’s point that there should be audio entry/exit cues, so why not implement that. We’re working on the fix to Octane pad audio bug. If y’all have other questions I’ll clear up what I can here!
Tons of question dodging
This was probably me just forgetting the question in the midst of my ramblings haha. Didn’t mean to skirt around questions and I’m happy to answer more here. I’m not gonna explicitly say, “we’re releasing x balance change on y date,” because reasons but I’ll gladly share my thoughts
Couple questions. 1. What are Caustic’s win and pick rate numbers looking like post patch? The game has felt much better with fewer Caustics running around despite the nerf being less dramatic than most people think. 2. Is the Spitfire going to get nerfed? It does too much dps for its low recoil + high damage per mag combo. Imo it was in a perfect spot prior to season 8. 3. What changes are being made to Wraith for s9 and beyond? Since the hit box nerf, she is the character that seems to die quickest in gunfights with her medium size hit box + low profile combo. It also doesn’t make sense to me that her hit box is bigger than her character model. 4. How is lifeline’s kit being handled? Regardless of whether her ult gets changed or buffed, her passive needs a 10-20 sec delay between revives. 5. Can locked and loaded be implemented permanently? If not, what else can be done to clean up the loot pool?
No worries, I’ve done pods and know it’s a weird format to discuss things in. Can you answer the horizon/octane audio stuff? Can we expect audio cues for horizon lift and octane pads at some point?
Yes and yes. Octane not having audio on pad is a bug and we're working on the fix
Any rev passive buff coming soon like infinite wall climb could be good without giving him fortified the main thing he lacks is in movement & gets lasered due to the big hitbox and it would fit the lore as well
When is the path passive buff coming cause he feels like underpowered compared to other recons like crypto , blood . Like you can give him atleast some buffs on zipline like faster movement ,better accuracy etc specially when octane , horizon are dominating him in movement category right now
Any chance of a rampart buff making her turret non stationary but movable at a low speed ? cause some times i don't even remember i have her ult in the entire game
Fuse ults def need some buff it is way too easy to walk over that without any dmg
Guns i feel are pretty balanced except maybe reduce spitfire dmg or magazine , also 30-30 needs a buff for sure and buff wingman a little more dmg buff pls (its a high skill weapon but feels way too risky to play in compared to other guns specially in comp)
thanks for the effort to talk to the community appreciate it !
We're working on Rev stuff. Don't think the community reception would be very positive if we straight up buffed him without addressing some frustration surrounding his ult. But I like the idea of a greatly increased climb.
Path has been performing very well in terms of encounter win rate and has a healthy pick rate since the removal of Low Profile. Not in a rush to touch him anymore at the moment.
That's not a bad idea at all for Rampart turret. The ult leaves a bit to be desired in it's current state, even with 180 rotation.
Agreed that Fuse ult needs a buff, but not for the reason you mentioned. I think it does plenty of damage and slow when it hits. I think in it's current state it's hard to capitalize on a successful ult unless you're in the niche situation of shooting it down for high ground. But at that point you might as well just use your gun.
Gun balance is in a healthy spot right now, and you're right about the Spitfire being strong. In regards to the Wingman, we're always wary of blowing out the top end on "bursty" weapons; weapons that can output a lot of damage over a short period of time a la Peacekeeper, Wingman, Prowler, Hemlok. It is much less forgiving than other midrange options, but the extra bullet definitely helps out.
Hey I’m far from a lead dev haha but I had a fun time. Didn’t mean to dodge questions... when it comes to Horizon audio: I don’t see a downside to hodsic’s point that there should be audio entry/exit cues, so why not implement that. We’re working on the fix to Octane pad audio bug. If y’all have other questions I’ll clear up what I can here!
There are a lot of great questions/comments here and I’m looking forward to giving my two cents on em tomorrow. Grinding some ranked atm 😈
- Will wraith gets low profile removed in s9? As a wraith main I can definitely tell you that big hitbox + low profile forces you to play the game differently. I get beamed much harder then on any legend. I think in terms of abilities she is rather balanced and her hitbox is a good size. It's just getting clipped in the ankle for a full 96 dmg by the mastiff seems kinda overkill.... like this :)
- Weapon balance is really good except spitfire (needs mag reduction to be inline with devotion) and mastiff (nerf was good but too much imo no one really uses it... Maybe +1 on pellet dmg?) (Though this is probably useless since pk is back in s9?)
- Will bloodhound get a nerf? I don't see many people talking about this legend but as a solo player this legend is my worst enemy. The "press a button and no need for game sense" is kinda broken... I kid you not when I say that most BH players have some of the worst game sense I've ever seen (because they don't need it). Maybe reduce the range of the scan? I don't really see a reason why a guy can scan me across hammond labs...
Thanks for taking the time to do this it's really really appreciated :) much love <3
Hey JayBiebs! Since you're answering questions I was hoping you could clarify something for me about Horizon. In Apex you no accuracy on ziplines, jump pads, and "falling" through air yet when Horizon flips gravity with her Q she is "falling" through air but up she has insane strafe with 100% accuracy.
I'm curious about the inconsistency of the accuracy Horizon since she is technically in the air (no accuracy penalty) and also gets strafe that surpasses the Wingman with any weapon with 100% accuracy. In my opinion, that combination is too strong. Her Q is a movement tactical and I am baffled it can be used so offensively.
I was surprised when I read that Horizon's nerf would be that she can strafe slightly less instead the nerf focusing on the 100% accuracy she has while in her Q. Her Q is already very strong since it can get high ground for an entire team every ~18 seconds and create clutch situations with using healing items, while not even mentioning her amazing ultimate ability.
I would think that if she does keep her 100% accuracy she should have minimal strafe just like a player would if they jumped off a large cliff and not be able to strafe so hard (barely any strafe). Or let her keep her insane strafe, but not let her get 100% accuracy.
I was hoping you could explain the reasoning behind the 100% accuracy and massive strafe combination and why the supposed nerf is only a slight strafe nerf. Thanks!
At one point in development Horizon was given air accuracy and it felt pretty bad, particularly when sitting on top of it. Having ground accuracy in the lift allows for some skill expression in effective tracking while moving vertically. It's hard to do but it feels pretty damn good as you improve with it. So we want to preserve that, but target the frustration on the receiving end where it sometimes feels like you're trying to track a squirrel corkscrewing up a tree. If you remember the lift teases, the vertical lift speed and general movement capabilities were reduced from what she shipped with. There were late tuning adjustments made to make sure she released strong, to break the pattern of underpowered new legends. Time to bring her back down to earth a bit, and I can tell you the changes will feel much different than a slight strafe nerf.
Why does Loba still only get 20% from ultimate accelerants instead of the standard 35%? (Speaking of Loba's ultimate, can you guys make it so that Treasure Packs don't use up Black Market slots?)
Why does the Quickdraw Holster cost more materials in the Replicator than the Skullpiercer? (45 vs 40)
Is there a particular reason why revives give the player 20 health (instead of 25)? I ask because it's annoying when you use 3 syringes after getting revived and there's a sliver of health missing.
Why don't respawned Legends have their tacticals available? Having to charge everything from scratch severely punishes Legends like Wattson, while Horizon gets hers almost immediately.
We learned a lot about what players liked/disliked about L&L gameplay
Dropping with a white shield and an hcog was such a great idea because it alleviates the very irritating experience of running through several loot groupings and not getting a shield during a contested drop while your teammates are wondering why you're on the other side of the POI. Being able to just grab a gun and go fight made the game so much more fun -- when we went back to the normal mode, it felt unbelievable that we played 7 or 8 seasons without dropping with a shield, it was a real bummer going back to dropping naked.
The mozambique isn't necessarily and a bit cumbersome because you need to swap it for a second gun and hold down the button rather than just picking up a gun with a single press -- this is relevant in the tense contested drop scenarios.
Having the HCOG though is a god sent idea -- it seems completely unnecessary to feel like you need to spend half the game looking for a common item. I had perhaps a 1000 or 2000 game stretch using the wingman and trying to get an hcog in solo queue was a overly difficult task.
Really crossing my fingers we at least get white body shields and if not a hcog on drop (an absolute dream of a concept, to reiterate), then perhaps an increase in their spawn rate.
Having an HCOG on drop undermines all the collaboration between weapons designers and artists when creating unique iron sights! There's a lot of thought and iteration on capturing the essence of a weapon through what's on the player's screen while ADS. And it's very purposeful to have certain iron sights feel better than others... it can influence players preferences for certain weapons on drop and lead to varying levels of excitement when finding optics. Even something as minor as a guaranteed HCOG on drop can have gameplay implications that make it more than a simple QoL update. Like you said, if you no longer feel obligated to spend half your game looking for it, you'd become combat ready much more quickly. I'm not saying HCOG alone would massively change the game or anything, but in conjunction with other L&L changes, gameplay over the course of the entire match changes. We just have to be very mindful of what that can mean for overall game health.
Please don't ruin rev's ult. To all those that complain about it, it is a complaint about a very niche situation - pairings with mobility characters. If you want to nerf the mechanic of pairing it with someone else's ult, have at it. But if your nerf extends beyond those pairings that some complain about then you really screw the legend over in all other scenarios and that's not fair for a legend struggling in placement and win rate and all that stuff. Please don't ruin the legend for the entire player base to satisfy a few vocal competitive players that want to win easy with their overpowered wraiths. It would frustrate a larger portion of your player base. If you HAVE to address the ult to appease those vocal players to keep them in your good graces, then address the problem they speak of specifically and nothing beyond that. For instance, a 4-5 second delay of using a jumppad after going back to the totem should allow the team getting attacked a moment to heal or reposition. Thank you for all the hard work!
I hear you. I have 6000 kills on Rev and I love his character concept. We're very mindful of his weaknesses and the frustrations associated with playing against him. That's why we're taking some time to make sure we get it right.
For Fuse's ult, maybe have it highlight players affected by it? Similar to how enemies are highlighted when behind Horizon's ult. Still kinda lackluster, but at least you get a better chance of capitalizing on it.
That's not a bad idea, and it's something we talked about at length actually. It would be nice and relatively simple to implement, but I don't think it does enough to address the root of the issue. We also want to stray away from just slapping sonar onto abilities that are underwhelming.
Hey, thank you soo much for doing this! I've always wanted to have the opportunity to talk to a balance dev, specially about some of the least popular legends (in mid-high ranks). I'm a sucker for underdogs, so I tend to play them in plat whenever I see some small possibility of them working with a team comp.
Any plans for Mirage? I know you guys said you are afraid of making Mirage become too oppressive for newcomers, so I was wondering if there were any ideas that you guys have thought about in regards to him or if you guys are done messing with him. I'd just love if Mirage was at least playable in higher ranks without teammates sighing audibly whenever you pick him. (I thought about turning Mirage into a recon character and allowing him to use survey beacons since he seems to have better recon abilities than Pathfinder with his decoys giving info and all, but it seems like some people are very against this).
How does Crypto do stat-wise and are there any things you guys are not very happy with in regards to him? Are there any ideas for him?
A while ago there were mentions of allowing Loba to use her ult to grab teammate's banners. Is this still something you guys want to implement? How does Loba fare compared to other legends? To add onto that, are you guys planning anything for her translocator? It's been quite buggy this season in particular.
Any plans of replacing Rampart's passive with something else less specific? Also, how is she doing lately in terms of stats? Seems like I'm seeing a lot more Ramparts around with some decent success.
Any prezzies for Fusey? Seems he's been universally considered pretty weak, and I was wondering if the stats reflect this vision. Was also wondering if there are any plans for him too.
Sorry that my questions involved a lot of stats stuff, but it really interests me, specially about some of the less-"adored" characters for ranked. Thank you so much for the opportunity, friend.
In the podcast you guys talk about it being OK if certain less fun, or more frustrating to play against, characters are a bit less powerful, because having them be meta can lead to an overall less fun game (I think it's mainly Hodsic that said this w.r.t. Caustic, but I could be wrong).
Have you ever thought about Bloodhound this way? As a solo queuer, he's easily the most fun destroying character for me to play against, because I often end up as the last squad member alive and then no matter how good my map movement and positioning are, as soon as I see that "you got scanned" message I know I'm as good as dead.
I can spend 5 minutes carefully moving my way into zone, using walk and crouch to prevent being heard and constantly trying to watch all directions, only for a single bloodhound to nullify my efforts with a single button press, without even needing any skill or game sense to do it.
Needless to say, I am not enjoying the current meta...
Yeah I've been keeping an eye on Bloodhound. Seems rare to come across a squad without one in my experiences in ranked, and they have the third highest pick rate at the moment. I'd be curious to see how much that may dip if we removed assists from scans. I know it's a super powerful ability regardless, but I'm curious if it'd move the needle at all before looking at nerfing the ability itself.
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