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When you have 100s of thousands of dollars up for grabs, and dying behind a door you closed or killed instantly (ping excluding) i cannot fathom how respawn cant afford a few higher tickrate servers?

respawn: “20Hz servers result in about five frames of delay, and 60Hz servers result in three frames of delay,” Respawn explained. “So for triple the bandwidth and CPU costs, you can save two frames worth of latency in the best-case scenario.”

so shaving off 33.2 ms would have no benefit? LOL, tickrate withstanding, this games netcode is so poorly optimized that a 30hz fortnite smashes it, this was 2 years ago, i highly doubt they have made any improvements, its really sad such a great game mechanically and visually is ruined by a trash netcode and 20hz pathetic servers

TLDR: competitive needs higher tickrate, ranked should get higher tickrate too, respawn needs to hire someone to fix there terrible netcode

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over 2 years ago - /u/ricklesauceur - Direct link

Originally posted by Annual_Ideal7727

Just a rant incoming.

Their reasoning has less to do with reaction time and more to do with consistency.

i.e no amount of latency will matter as long as your shots register the majority of time... they also don't talk about the interpolation delay caused by the low tickrate... hell, majority of people do not even know what this is or what interpolation does.

20hz is enough to get a good enough packet flow for clients to interpolate and for the server to do proper rollback (upping to 60hz and causing bufferbloat f***s with hit registration as you get delayed packets, or outright dropped packets).

But we get a ton of "issues" with delayed response times because we need at least 2-3 snapshots/packets to properly interpolate (meaning minimum 150ms inherit delay on top of your actual ping).

There are some other things that needs to be mentioned with 60hz servers, which have less to do with servers being able to handle them and more to do with consumer grade cable/adsl/fiber.

I literally have a 1gbit connection with a custom router (10gbit nic etc), and 60hz with 2.5kb or more per packet has a tendency to cause buffer bloat as is even with this in mind.. it needs an aggressive packet scheduler QoS protocol to even combat this, which 99.9% of people do not have.... meaning majority of people would be getting more issues than right now.

Should be mentioned that the majority of ISP's have issues on their end as well.

majority of problems start here.. we could run at 1000hz over lan without issues.. not so much online as they have priority to the bare minimum and tend to focus on tcp/ip (which is not ideal for games whatsoever).

For apex to move over to 60hz they would need an entire overhaul of their netcode/protocol to use dynamic tick rates per player, as well as how they handle interpolation client side to accommodate said dynamic tickrate.... doing server side rollback on this is a nightmare and a half as well... and trust me on this, you do not want client side hit registration.

This is not a small task, and might not even be considered cost effective as delay from netcode etc is a very small complaint considering the entire player base (we are a small subset after all).

To even have a large amount of packets being sent every second they would need to be insanely small.. which they already are considering how much they are sending every single update (50/20, roughly 2.5kb per update for 60players + projectiles + loot etc).

Fortnite etc do not send updates for every single player every packet for instance on, all building etc are fragmented into different packets (i.e not being sent as an entire snapshot)... apex sends everything each and every update, for them to use dynamic tick you would still end up with sub 60hz updates for players (including yourself) and you would still get hit behind cover.

Older games like cs/quake etc could get away with 100-1000hz tickrates as they were sending packets that were 0.5-2kb in size.. even then buffer bloat was an issue, and they were sending faaaar less than apex or any other BR needs to.

On top of all of this we need to consider packet fragmentation, which in of itself can cause a bunch of issues and has a far higher tendency to happen when your sending more of them (and far more considering the quality of connection of most people)..

My point is that just saying "zomfg get better servers respawn" just isn't a reality that can be achieved with any large amount of success.. games like pubg, fortnite etc all have overhauled their netcode and rely a ton on client side hit registration and client side trickery (entity prediction/extrapolation etc.. not optimal for a game like apex tbh).

Both STILL suffer from bufferbloat issues despite all their optimization, they just "hide" it better.

Thanks for the post, I do not think I disagree with any of it (I am roasting under the sun for my vacation so maybe the Mojitos are too strong...). If you are looking for a job hit me in my dm :P

It is a complex set of problems between lag compensation / physics / player movement / ballistics / networking. Comparing server tick rate is not really helpful as every engine and technology solve things differently in those domains.

The point I prefer about your rant is the buffer bloat. One of my priority is to reduce packet size in Apex. It will give players a way better and consistent experience than raising the tick rate.

I am more interested personally about why you think you would want a higher tick rate. In what situation, in game, you think it was detrimental.