Original Post — Direct link

I'm really excited about ECO's update. But some issues are apparent right off the bat.

  1. Fish Stew- they require tallow, the only way to get tallow is hunting. So why is fish stew relevant at all? You still need tallow to make it which means your going to have to Hunt and fish rather then just hunt for a stew. It's equal to Meaty stew but requires twice the running around to make.
  2. Tailoring -you took out the mid game elements of Tailor and moved them to hunting reducing their ability to make income and then made tailors main income maker "rugs" cost more materials to make. The late game stuff is also irrelevant because it gives no buffs. No one would wear these cloths over the Work clothes or Running shoes/light backpack. Basically a 1% item for the rich. Nothing to help people. How is a tailor going to make enough income to setup an industrial setup late game when you removed all its mid-game money making items and made Rugs require extra steps and costs?

I'm kind of disappointed at this patch it seems like you guys put out a half ass approach and told us to wait further for you to flesh it out. Why? Why can't you get the professions right. Hunting is a irrelevant skill and still is. You took away from tailoring to try to make hunting relevant. Tailoring is a irrelevant skill except for teching up and now you made it even more irrelevant with useless items it crafts and even more expensive ways to make the only things people wanted from Tailors "Rugs".Fish stew become irrelevant after day 2-3 when most servers start getting cooking and baking going. Its not useful if you have to both hunt and fish to make a fish recipe for cooking.

What are your goals do you want people to take Hunting, butchery, and tailoring? What exactly is it that you want.

Why did you not add Fish recipes for Tier 2 cooking? Baking? Adv cooking/baking? Is it really that hard to flesh out your stuff and release a complete patch that addresses the issues? We've been waiting for update since January.

What I want to know is this how the update systems will happen in the future? Will you keep adding stuff half way done and then ask us to continue to wait till you flesh it out? Or will you actually create complete systems that make logical sense?

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over 3 years ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Giving you the honest answer:
Yes - we will continue to introduce and improve professions in smaller parts over time, especially when in minor updates. This allows us to introduce content much more regularily and adapt stuff in steps, taking player feedback into account. I can understand why you don't like that, but that's how it currently is.

Tailoring is something that will get expanded again in 9.4 and the following Update, but we don't want to hold back stuff that is done, useable and new interesting content until everything is done, as that simply doesn't work with the development flow we use and includes several focus points in an Update. From the past it also seems that is what the majority of players want.

We feel the additions are meaningful and work and that both professions are balanced better now - but of course they aren't done, that wasn't the goal, though.

over 3 years ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by Apapyrus

I just wanted to thank you for answering these posts. This kind of transparency regarding the state and process of development is refreshing and very welcome. All the best!

Thank you. I prefer the honest way, even if that causes valid backleash. It's the better thing long-term.

over 3 years ago - /u/SLG-Dennis - Direct link

Originally posted by Zetazhanplays

OK But what about the balancing? You didn't actually make Fish useful. you still need tallow to make the stew. You took away the money making mid game products tailor makes and require industry in order to make the end game tailor items. How are you supposed to make enough money to afford T3 building materials and epoxy on that? Once the skill books are made the cloth has no use to any other class except tailor. It appears you want to cubbyhole Tailors to becoming Butchers/Hunters as well.

You shouldn't adjust stuff and then make them irrelevant. Tailoring is worst off as a profession now then better off.

You know what would make Hunting a relevant profession? Giving fish an actual use.

The last update was in January are you saying we will have to wait 3 months for the Tailoring to finally get balanced? Hunters finally get balanced in 3 months form now. What is regular updates? Monthly? Bi-weekly? quarterly?

The fish is actually a dev-tier submitted addition by a user we just took in as it was there. Fish was no focus at all for this update. We had a bit of cool content ready and gave it to you.

In regards to the tailor we will need to see how it plays out, which we will definitely see with White-Tiger starting tomorrow but at the current state we do not agree with the sentiment of making the Tailor useless midgame. We feel what he has to offer is useful and he will be doing fine. I'll be happy to take a review on that after this Tiger cycle :) As I said, we feel Tailor is better off now.

The last update was in January are you saying we will have to wait 3 months for the Tailoring to finally get balanced? Hunters finally get balanced in 3 months form now. What is regular updates? Monthly? Bi-weekly? quarterly?

We don't currently do regular updates. I wished we did, have been pushing for that several times and we even tried a few times, but the state of Eco in backend and size of team with scope of what we want to do doesn't allow yet. We mostly do smaller Updates with lots of fixes, QoL changes and balance improvements, adding several pieces of content and then wrap it up with a big major Update once or twice a year.

And yes, it has been common that improvements were made over several Updates as you describe. I know that is not satisfying. It's not for me either. But it's nothing we could change currently, unfortunately. We only lately grew in size and organizing a flexible full-remote team that suddenly doubled with outdated development processes is nothing done in short notice. That's clearly our fault. But that doesn't change the situation, that will only progressively get better over time.