[2023] PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Cloudrest;c-7802478

Backlash and morphs are seriously underperforming in PvP right now. Templar's burst ability should be hitting for more than 2-5k damage against players. Please look at the several threads talking about how weak Templar is currently and address the issue properly for week three of PTS, or look at the several comments on this thread. Nerf beam too, please.

Nightblade is still overperforming due to the unique 10% damage buff attached to concealed weapon.

Sorc changes don't address the issues with the class in PvP.

Hi all, we had a chat with the dev team about this and wanted to follow up. We've seen your feedback regarding Templar and Sorcerer feeling like they are underperforming compared to the other classes. We would like to get some clarity from you all defining what specifically you mean by "underperforming." Specific details and examples would be helpful. This will give the dev team better context around how the community sees these as underperforming, as that term is broad and can be interpreted differently based on each player's playstyle, build, equipment, played content, etc.

CameraBeardThePirate;c-7802530

There have been 4 or 5 "Necro needs help" feedback posts the past patch cycle alone, each one talking about different areas the class was hurting. Harmony graverobber was Necro's only real use in PvP anymore, and with it gone, Necromancer feels aimless right now.

The developer team often states they want each class to have a certain "feel", flavor, or gameplay fantasy they perform well, so I urge you to consider the question "What does a Necro play like?" with these upcoming changes.

Are they a DoT class? Well, they have 10% DoT damage and 15% DoT reduction, but they aren't really a DoT class - they only have 2 class DoTs, both AOE.

Are they a burst class? Well, blastbones is a strong burst ability, but that's only when it wants to be. Taking out Graverobber doesn't really leave necro with anything that would fit this role.

Well surely they have a unique and exciting, useful class kit right? Almost. They had usefulness in applying Major Vulnerability and Empower, but Major Vuln has many options for application now, and Empower is nearly useless in all scenarios now. Blastbones and the tethers being the exception (with the latter being situational at best) Necros likely won't use many of their other class abilities. Why? Well they need an ability that gives their major damage buff, their major crit buff, and need an on demand stun if they'll be PvPing. They also need to outsource their spammable, as Skulls underperform most of the other alternatives. Are you running proc sets? Then you should probably run even fewer class skills, since Blastbones and the Archer/Arcanist won't proc damage sets, and Ghost won't proc healing sets.

Necro needs some love. They're almost an excellent class but they've been shoehorned into Harmony bombing for so long that the areas they've lacked in have flown under the radar. Now with Harmony bombing gone, and many of their other issues being more significant in today's meta, they need a bit of help. Throw them a lifeline ZOS.

Hi all, we chatted with the dev team to follow up on some of the player commentary around Harmony. First to frame the conversation, we want to reiterate the dev team's thoughts around the change, which was highlighted in the patch notes.

"This trait is currently far too niche for its intended use and is meant to be an enhancer to the Undaunted skill line and group play, but ironically is being utilized more by solo builds in PvP to instantly obliterate large groups. We’re shifting this trait over to be more recovery focused, which has much more use potential between PvE and PvP, rather than trying to continue making a value that doesn’t add more insta-gibbing potential but still has impact enough in PvE.""

To add additional feedback from dev, Harmony was being used in ways outside the intended goals of rewarding group play. Additionally, dev has noted that Necromancers being used as a "bomb" class was outside of the intended scope of play and created a unhealthy play environment.

With that context, we are happy to relay additional questions and/or feedback to dev regarding the this change to Harmony.

Yamenstein;c-7802954

Can a dev please explain the harmony/boneyard nerfs in relation to necro pvp? Is there plans to buff necros or fix up several skills in their skill lines?

As noted in another post, Harmony was being used in ways outside the intended goals of rewarding group play. Additionally, dev has seen Necromancers used as a "bomb" class and this is outside of the intended scope of play. It contributes to creating an unhealthy play environment.

However, we would like to hear from you regarding what you think the class needs. What do you think the class needs and how are you coming to that determination? Let us know - this will help give the dev team a better constructive perspective from all of you.

heaven13;c-7802754

I'm sure someone has already pointed it out but DKs and templars had similar reasoning for some changes in some vastly different approaches that feel incredibly unbalanced.

[list]
[*] Dragonknight: Chains of Devastation: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 10 seconds after casting, rather than Empower, as Molten Armaments already grants it in a much more effect way.
[*] Templar: Everlasting Sweep: Increased the duration of the pulsing Damage over Time to 10 seconds at base, up from 6 seconds.This morph no longer grants Empower, as Solar Flare and its morphs already grant this buff.
[/list]

So DKs get an added named buff (and a major one) and templars get...4 more seconds of pulsing damage? Seems balanced.

In chatting with the dev team, we wanted to highlight the Chain of Devastation morph was one of the least used abilities in the DK's arsenal. The change was less about buffing the class, and more about creating better incentive to use this underutilized ability more.

That being said, the dev team is looking at adjusting the duration of Berserk to be more challenging to keep up without repeated use of the skill.

React;c-7802781

Wrecking blow has a severe targeting issue. Dizzying swing does NOT have this issue, ONLY the wrecking blow morph has this issue.

The bug: With the wrecking blow morph of uppercut, if you character model turns slightly away from the target you are channeling the ability on, it instantly cancels the channel. This is extremely problematic in PVP, where players are frequently moving around and the server struggles to establish precise locations. This bug is not present on the dizzying swing morph, only on the wrecking blow morph. This doesn't occur if your camera moves away, but only if your character model turns away, as seen in the clip below.

It is so great to finally see this ability getting a much needed buff, and I am excited to once again have the option of playing an uppercut build in PVP - but PLEASE fix this targeting issue so that the skill is useable.

https://streamable.com/z3o92z

Thanks for the feedback here. The team is investigating this.

XomRhoK;c-7802875

[list]
[*] Overall i like the idea of elusive gameplay with Mist form, often go in and out of Mist form create really good vampiric atmosphere and gameplay.
[*] At this point, Mist form skills are bugged, character just don't streak to the pointed direction with any settings of ground targeting, he only streaks if Mist form used second time in a raw or if any other skill were used right before using Mist form. Seems not all players affected by this bug.
[spoiler]https://vimeo.com/794316969[/spoiler]
And another bug, where character try to streak to Invalid location and regain all magicka, but still receive all buffs. Potentially can be abused.
[spoiler]https://vimeo.com/794316992[/spoiler]
[*] Animation of casting Mist form need to be changed, in my opinion. It must be instant witout any scream and movement from the character, because now it looks more like a jump forward with scream, not a elusive movement.
[*] Elusive mist skill seems ok at the moment in terms how it looks and feel.
[*] Blood mist, in the other hand, looks and feel bad, in my opinion. Animation of ground effect is bad, it's just a red puddle, looks very cheap and not atmospheric, with mist on top of that puddle it looks acceptable, but without mist, just under the character model it looks bad. DOT last for long 20 seconds, it take away this cool feeling of constant transforming in and out of Mist form. Better make it similar to bat swarm streak that NPC vampires have with cool animation and instant AoE damage, or if you want to keep DOT damage make it last for 4-10 seconds, just to keep reasons to use this skill more often.
At the begining of the video you can see NPC vampire streak.
[spoiler]https://vimeo.com/417422157[/spoiler]
[/list]

We are looking into this issue with Mist form and will update in a future PTS update. Thank you and please keep an eye out for future PTS notes.

Hi all, we took your feedback to the combat team regarding the state of Sorcerer. We have a few comments to share.

We know survivability has been a concern with Sorcerer, given the feedback received and some of the data. We increased Sorcerer survivability this update by giving a sizable buff to shields. We'll continue evaluating and investigating as we go live as well.

We've also seen feedback regarding Pet vs non-Pet builds. Specifically, wanting more options for non-Pet builds. While there will be no changes to this in U37, we want to acknowledge this sentiment and the team is monitoring this. We want to make sure when thinking about this and reviewing feedback, we are keeping class presentation for Pet Sorcerer in mind while also allowing for class diversity for those who want to play non-Pet Sorcerer.

Regarding Sorcerers and their lack of unique buff/debuffs, this is intentional and there are no current plans to change this. Sorcerers do have some unique abilities in their kit, like silences. However, not locking Sorcerer into having unique buffs/debuff allows for more class diversity in group environments.

Lastly, we want to reiterate the notion of classes having strengths and weaknesses. Sorcerer, like every other class, cannot be good at everything. This is part of building class identity. There are ways for players to bridge the gap through gear, consumables, etc. That does not negate us from addressing problem areas, but it does mean there will be times where elements of a class will struggle compared to others. That is okay and a part of building unique gameplay experiences.

In addition to taking feedback to the team about Sorc, we also took your feedback to the team regarding the state of Templars. We want to follow up on how the team uses feedback to inform combat and balance changes.

The combat team is always looking at data from various points of play (PvE, PvP, low-end to high-end damage parse, group content and solo play, etc.) and collective feedback across the board to make informed balanced adjustments. Many of the previous adjustments to Templar were directly made off of those points.

While there are no planned changes for Templar in U37, outside of anything already highlighted in patch notes, we're evaluating everchanging data and will continue to adjust around issues when they arise. Your continued feedback will be apart of that process.

Lastly, in chatting with the combat team, we want to hit on the overall commentary around class performance. We’ll always continue to keep an eye on varying areas of class performance. By using data and player feedback from across all mediums of communication, we’ll make targeted adjustments to outliers to improve classes and the overall health of gameplay. We’re not making any promises today for when these adjustments could happen, however we’re always monitoring and evaluating when these changes can be safely made.

The_Titan_Tim;c-7815375

@ZOS_Kevin, hey if your team could look into Sun Shield’s size being increased based off of highest stamina or magicka alternatively from health, as an either/or like Conjured Ward, that would be an incredible change to the utility of the skill, currently the ability is useless in PvP outside of being massively outnumbered.

Max resource scaling regardless of the resource would be great, weapon damage scaling would be even better… though it might be a long shot.

Edit; Also, adding a Stamina morph to Toppling Charge would be a godsend. Thanks.

Wanted to touch on this feedback on Sun Shield after chatting with the Combat Team. The current iteration of Sun Shield helps to keep the skill inline with the class identity of the Templar. Sorcerers get more unique functionality with Conjured Ward as this skill also fits in line with its class identity.

Also regarding usage of the skill, it is working as intended. Sun Shield is moreso a tool for tanks vs. being used for damage dealers.