about 1 year ago - kovarex - Direct link

Hello,
Today we are going to talk a little bit about a big feature in the expansion, Quality!


What is Quality?

Quality is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

What truth?

That you are a noob, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into normal quality. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your factory.

You take the blue module, the story ends, you wake up in your factory and believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the white module, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.


Horizontal versus Vertical growth

  • Horizontal growth is just using what I have to build more: More mining outposts, more production facilities etc.
  • Vertical growth is improving the efficiency in which I produce: Better assembling machines, better smelters, better modules, technology upgrades, and better setups.

In the mid-game you have to balance the vertical and horizontal growth, which is fun because you need to strategize more. In the endgame, you mainly scale horizontally and it is enjoyable too because you know you won't be changing the designs much, so you can attempt to have the "final version" and scale it up, while there are new challenges appearing at the larger scale.

I always wanted to extend the part of the game where you have to balance the vertical and horizontal growth, and quality seems like a nice general solution to do that.


So what is quality?

Every Item, Entity, and Equipment has 5 possible qualities now, and each quality tier gives an improved bonus value, used for most of the stuff:

  • Normal: Base quality for everything, no bonus
  • Uncommon: +30% bonus
  • Rare: +60% bonus
  • Epic: +90% bonus
  • Legendary: +150% bonus


Quality has various effects.

All higher quality entities have more health, but apart from that, they get unique bonuses based on their type:

  • Electric poles have larger supply area and wire reach. +1 tile per quality level.
  • Modules have improved primary bonuses.
  • Spidertrons and armor have larger equipment grids. +1 in each direction for each extra level.
  • Spidertrons have a bigger inventory and armors give a higher inventory size bonus.
  • Equipment is generally better in what it does.
  • Turrets and guns have more range.
  • Ammo does more damage.
  • Inserters move faster.
  • Mining drills deplete resources slower.
  • Assembling machines/furnaces/labs are faster.
  • Worker robots have larger battery capacity.
  • Roboports recharge robots faster.
  • Solar panels produce more energy.
  • Accumulators have larger battery capacity.
  • Nuclear reactors, boilers and steam engines have increased production.
  • Beacons have lower power consumption.
  • Radars have larger reveal ranges.
  • Repair packs have more durability.
There are a few entities which don't have any bonus apart from the health, which is belts, pipes, rails, chests, combinators, walls, and lamps.

When these bonuses are combined, things can get pretty wild pretty quickly:

  • 4 Legendary productivity modules in an an assembling machine 3 gives +100% productivity bonus (it was +40% before). Since this multiplies in multi-step production chains, the overall factory productivity gets quite a big boost.
  • High quality spidertrons and armors with high quality equipment get pretty powerful. There is actually a new achievement for having best legendary armor full of legendary equipment.
  • With the fast machines/modules and inserters, some of the setups can get quite extreme.

How do we get the higher quality?

We wanted to make a system for semi-automated higher tiers of everything without the need to multiply all the recipes.
Generally, just adding a huge amount of recipes isn't really adding to the game at this point, as we feel that the game already has enough, especially when we consider Space Age specific ones not yet revealed.

At the same time, we wanted to add some complexity, and also, make the related complications explicitly opt-in.
This is how we came up with the idea of the new type of module, the quality modules.

Quality module

The quality module has a special effect, which increases the probability of getting higher quality results when crafting in a machine.
So, for example the the most basic quality module 1 (which has the same tier and availability as other tier 1 modules) adds +1% quality increase chance.
This means that when you insert the one module into an assembling machine and let it craft 1,000 iron gears from normal iron plates, you get 10 uncommon gear wheels on average. But when you insert more modules and increase their tier and quality (yes, quality of quality modules is a thing), this probability sharply increases.

This was all about increasing quality, but an important part of the mechanic is, that the quality of the ingredients is the base for the quality of the product, so getting higher quality intermediates is valuable too.
On top of that, the quality increase can be not only one level at a time, but you can get lucky and get more steps at a time, each additional step has 10 times lower chance of happening, so for our previous examples, out of the 1000 gears, 9 would be uncommon and 1 rare.

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Example of the probabilities with 4 normal quality 3 modules.

Quality modules can't be inserted into beacons (for the same reasons you can't do it with productivity modules), but other than that, it is not limited.
Since productivity modules are usable only on intermediates, there are plenty of places where the extra quality items might be produced without any productivity penalty.

It is also notable that we created a quality penalty on speed modules, because haste makes waste, and we wanted to reduce the number of places where beacons full of speed modules is the best way to go.

The last piece of the puzzle

Ok, so we presented a way to get some higher quality stuff, but it would still be quite weird with the not-so-good items piling up somewhere. This is why we added a new machine, the Recycler.

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Graphics are subject to change.

Not only it solves one of the biggest problems in Factorio of how to get rid of all the pistols Trupen made.
It also allows you to get rid of the item qualities which are no longer good enough with a chance to get something back. More specifically, for each crafted item, the recycler gives you 25% of the original ingredients back. You might wonder why only 25%, but when you take all the possible productivity bonuses into consideration, it needs to be this low to avoid a net positive recycling loop.

This is also why we created an overall machine limit on productivity to be +300% (modifiable by mods if needed), so even when some mods add machines with more module slots and/or better productivity modules, it will always be prevented from getting broken accidentally.

The actual cost

With the recycler in mind, we can produce legendary items in quite a simple way. We just create assembling machines filled with quality modules for each quality of ingredients, and recycle everything thats not perfect until you get the quality you want.

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This build takes electronic circuits and recycles them. The normal ingredients are returned back to the main factory, while quality ones are processed into quality electronic circuits, with any better than Rare being stored in chests.

With this straightforward approach, if you want to produce items of legendary quality, and you already have enough legendary quality 3 modules (which is not an easy thing to get in the first place), the legendary items are 56 times more expensive than normal items.

But obviously, since items have a chain of steps to produce them, every step has the potential to increase the quality of the intermediate products. With different approaches, and possibly different machines or other ways to improve the productivity of the process (tease of some future FFF content), the cost can be brought lower, but it will always be pretty expensive to get the best stuff.

Unlocking quality tiers

Not all of the quality tiers will be available from the beginning, only uncommon and rare is unlocked with the quality module research, and the better ones are unlocked later. More specifically Epic is on one of the 3 earlier planets, and Legendary on the last planet.

Strategy implications

I'm happy with the strategy implications, because they add more important decisions throughout the game.

  1. You don't have the recycler soon in the game, so you can't really just recycle to get the best stuff, the most common way how to start with the quality is to just insert some quality modules into production of final products, which emits some higher quality products as a by product.
    This results in a stage of the game, where you pick the very limited number of higher quality modules, machines etc. made as a side effect, and you can decide what are the most important parts of the factory that need boosting.
  2. Later, especially once you unlock recycling, it can be a HUGE trap to try to get too high quality of too many things too early.
    The cost is just too high, and you can easily realize, that 90% of the production of your factory goes into trying to get the legendary cool thing you want.
    So prioritization of where and how many resources go is crucial. As well as deciding what items are the most important to get in higher quality. It plays a huge role in the speed in which you move forward.
    On the other hand, if someone wants to just slow-run the game and enjoy having everything semi-perfect and over-prepare before moving to another planet, the possibility is certainly there.
  3. When interplanetary logistics come into play, the quality plays a big role, as things change.
    With normal quality products, it might be easier and more productive to make the thing locally on the planet from the local resources rather than having to transfer it through rockets and space platforms. But once the standard goes up, and you start using high quality entities more, the relative cost of the item and the rocket to transport it changes a lot, and it starts to be better to make each item production in one place and just transport it everywhere.
  4. It plays nicely with the space platform building part, as the space on the platform is quite limited and expensive, it is very efficient to save the best stuff you have for the platform, at least in the beginning.
  5. In big numbers, the quality is basically statistics, but in small numbers the random aspect can be quite fun in a different way. Especially for personal armors and equipment, we always ended up having an assembling machine with the best quality modules in the center of the factory dedicated for people trying to gamble for the best possible equipment for their personal use. The excitement of getting directly a rare power armor from common ingredients when you are super lucky is the same as getting BAR-BAR-BAR in the slot machine, or the wanted item in the pay-to-win lootbox mechanics. But in Factorio you don't have to take another mortgage on your house to enjoy this aspect of the game!


Engine support and history

Quality is the most mature feature of the expansion, because I was developing its first versions internally before the 1.0 release, and it was kept in a separate branch the whole time.
We were considering just putting it into the 1.0 release, but since we were already so behind our plan (similar story as with the space platform), and this is the kind of feature that tends to create unexpected problems (delays), it was decided to just wait with it for the expansion.

There are many internal changes we had to do in order to make quality integrated into the core of the game. Just the GUI changes are touching quite a lot of places on their own. In some places, you just select quality, in others we had to allow the selection of a "quality condition", so for example, you can select to only upgrade assemblers with lower than uncommon quality, etc.

This is a brief list of the places that come to my mind:

  • When you specify filters of quickbar/inventory/deconstruction planner.
  • When you order things from the logistic network.
  • When you view statistics.
  • In circuit network signals.
  • In chat tags.
  • In assembler recipe selection.
  • In blueprint icon selection.
  • In the upgrade planner.
  • In the editor.
And more...


Here, for example, the logistic request allows setting either one specific quality, or a quality condition.
In this case, we are trashing all of the assemblers with lower than rare quality.
Requesting items must use the '=' condition, as using the other quality comparisons would be ambiguous and inefficient, hence the lower number is greyed out.

And this is just the GUI, it obviously affects many parts of the game including modding API etc.

This means, that I had to do many VERY complicated merges into the branch during 1.0 and 1.1 development, as many things were different in the branch, so almost anything that touched internal IDs, GUI, or tests, was almost guaranteed to have a merge conflict. I believe that fellow programmers will sympathize with my pain.

So once we started working on the expansion, this was the very first thing that was put there to finally escape this purgatory. This means that it is the most tested feature both technically, and also game-play wise. This explanation might also make it more understandable, why we don't plan to backport features we already have (like those from FFF-374) into the 1.1.

Expansion only

To make things clear, the quality content is exclusively part of the expansion. The non-expansion binary works the same internally, it just doesn't allow any mod to define anything other than the normal quality.

We have made it so that quality is 'invisible' in the game until quality modules are unlocked, so you won't see anything related to quality if you haven't researched quality module or are playing the base game. This includes all the GUIs and interactions as mentioned earlier.

It's also worth noting that while it's a lot of fun to play with quality, using it is completely optional. The expansion is balanced in a way that using quality can be beneficial, but it is reasonable to finish the game without touching quality at all. Typically, people who want to just finish the game are more likely to not touch quality much, while those who want to build a big factory will have very good reasons to use it.


Conclusion

There were at least 2 full LAN playthroughs with quality even before space-related stuff was developed, and more after with a lot of individual playthroughs on top of that.
Each of those helped to fix related bugs and tweak the functionality based on the feedback.
This means that I have enough evidence to be able to confidently say that the pain was worth it, and this feature is fun to play with and works seamlessly!

As always, let us know what you think at the usual places.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Weppet

I'm a bit torn on quality. On one hand it could be a fun way to design around absurdly powerful items, on the other it doesn't feel like Factorio. The quality indicator seems out of place too, but maybe it's just a place holder.

How do stacks work now? One stack for each quality?

Yes, quality stacks are independent.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Menolith

The names in particular feel rather out of place. "Epic" and "Legendary" are evocative of your usual fantasy setting which is very much at odds with Factorio's smoggy quasi-dieselpunk aesthetic.

I just found it amusing to have legendary iron plate.

about 1 year ago - /u/Klonan - Direct link

Originally posted by MindWorX

To make things clear, the quality content is exclusively part of the expansion. The non-expansion binary works the same internally, it just doesn't allow any mod to define anything other than the normal quality.

This feels a bit icky to me. I get why, they want to encourage more people to get the expansion, but it also means fragmenting mods more since they now have to deal with supporting both vanilla or expansion. Many might just opt to default require expansion. I know it wont impact many, me included, as we will just get the expansion. But it feels like the wrong decision.

Only comparison I can make is something like StarCraft II, where each DLC added new things, but all engine features were still fully available to modders. The only limitation was the use of assets new assets and obviously mods that just replicated the expansion would be removed.

It is actually the opposite, using the same binary means mods don't need separate versions and or need to support 2 different APIs.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by AntaroNx

Does the endgame become gambling on high rarity parts that otherwise get recycled into another chance of becoming high quality because rng?

I don't like it, and I play gacha games. Hopefully this can be turned off. The module is fine, no need to change it for the sake of change.

I get how the whole "RNG" feels strange at first, but in practice you're mostly not producing single units of anything, rather mass quantities. So in the end it's really just a statistic rather than hoping for something to drop individually.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by MjccWarlander

To be honest it sounds like it would be quite tedious feature, knowing me (and I'm probably not alone on this) I would just recycle everything that isn't the best quality so entire factory only uses the top quality components and products.

The problem with this is, that the costs are quite significant so it's very much worth it to not ignore steps. Also, the last two quality tiers are unlocked later on planets so you'd have to skip it entirely at the first half of the game, and it's quite worth it to have just a handful of better machines on the space platform for example, or a few higher quality productivity modules in the most resource expensive recipes.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Spaceman_05

I don't think the random element fits factorio well. Surely the quality module should charge a bar like the productivity module does?

I feel like a predictable system would allow for more depth of design, such as integrating well with the circuit network

I actually think that random element fits factorio. As others pointed out, the kovarex process and the uranium processing also has random in it and it shows how nicely it breaks the design monotony.

There is another random element on the space platform, where you can catch different kind of asteroids, process them, and deal with the fact, that it is not the perfect ratio you want.

The point is, that perfect ratio setups might be fun, and still will be in the game (although I almost never do perfect ratios personally, I just put things down and look for bottlenecks). But it is boring to have everything the same and exact, having a system which fluctuates and you have to deal with all the possible ways it can break is just additonal design challenge.

Having these changes in the way you build and think about the game, to avoid doing the typical belt->inserter->assembler->inserter->belt template everywhere was one of the goals in the expansions, and there will be more things which will require the player to do things differently.

It is also absolutely on the player to decide what do use. As said, the quality can be ignored (if you don't create the modules), or it can be used only to recycle-loop the one or few most important things, but the rest of the factory can stay the same. Yes, if you wanted to produce absolutely everything in factory with quality, even intermediates, it would be quite complicated mess, but based on the testing, almost no-one dared to do it so far, even when they used quality a lot.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by PlusVera

Hmm. Interested feature. I'm mixed on it.

Pro: From the sounds of things, you do not get "Quality" Items until you use the Quality Module. So your miners won't be spitting out "Quality" Ore until you put the modules into them. This means that you can beat the game and ignore this system if you don't like it, like the circuit network.

Con: Once you start using Quality Modules, it might be VERY VERY PAINFUL. Not only will they start to take up space in Trains or other inventory locations, they will also end up in places you might not expect, due to the nature of Factorio factories being... intertwined after a while.

Pro: Higher quality items might help alleviate beacon spamming as a strategy in the early late-game.

Con: It might make the end-late-game way, WAY worse as q5 beacons with q5 modules are now so much more effective.

Pro: This does mean your starter base will likely not produce these items, and instead they will be the focus of mega bases and later planet stages.

Con: Depending on how Armors work, it might be possible to make lower tier armor that is better than a higher tier piece due to the upgrades provided by it's quality.

Pro: More RNG and Recycling assembly lines for those that enjoy the logistics puzzle of that. With them being able to be filtered, I can already see the challenge behind it, and it does seem like an interesting puzzle. The question is; is it an interesting puzzle to repeatedly solve, or will we end up with a Blueprint that solves it within a week of launch? I feel this leans Blueprint, but I'm not certain.

Con: Oh god this is terrible for malls. I know if I limit chests to two slots and the only thing outputting into it is a Radar Assembler, I will only get 2 stacks of 50 Radars every time I come to the mall. This throws a MASSIVE wrench into that. If I do not sanitize components going into my mall (which, doing so will lower the speed at which my mall can produce, btw), I must use circuits, and I can get anywhere from 2-6 (7?) stacks of items from that chest. If I do not sanitize my input and use chest limiting as I'm used to... that Radar Assembly could just give me 2 Radars coz it made a tier 0, I, and II Radar from some higher quality green chip, and couldn't fit them all in.

Pro: More Modules is a good thing. More research is a good thing. Genuinely this does offer a new form of vertical expansion and that is great. It always felt good to replace your yellow belts with red and red with blue, same with assemblers and inserters. This stacking on top of those systems yields yet another way to upgrade old builds without replacing them entirely... somewhat.

Con: The names are funky, as others have stated, and the icons make for a very information-cluttered screenspace, which was already a little cluttered for my liking (I don't need to see the priorities/filters of splitters or the direction of inserters all the time). PLEASE make them toggled into something other than the Alt key outside of inventories.

There's a lot more interesting details about this. Generally there's 2 main approaches:

More complicated approach:

- Put quality modules in every steps you can

- Means a lot of complications with where you route which items.

- It's possible to mix qualities, but the result will be of the lowest quality. This way you can make use of all items.

This is generally really complicated and I don't think you'd typically want to do this. Maybe at the early stages of the game you just shove quality modules in various machines so that you could get quality ingredients for a 1-off thing (like armor, equipment or tank) - then you're not really relying on RNG and just on your strategic decision of putting those modules in machines early so they build up the quality parts.

Simpler approach:

- Put productivity modules everywhere on for example circuit production

- Put quality modules only on the final product (Productivity module)

- Recycle productivity modules that you already have enough of in that quality

- Get ingredients back (potentially in higher quality) that you reprocess into productivity modules

The key part about this is, that all of it can be made in a closed loop and doesn't have to mess up any of the factory at all. This approach works really well and it's easy to scale to different items.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by Vitau

One question, can train locomotives have higher quality too? I would love a acceleration bonus on them too

No, primarily because we don't have an automatic way of upgrading locomotives.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by CzTd

Is quality moddable? Can you add more quality types with modding?

Yes, they are prototypes like everything else, you can change their bonuses, "hardness" (the probability to get the next tier), names and count of them.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by ultra1994

do higher quality train fuel increase top speed and acceleration?

Not at the moment but that may still change

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by subjectivelyimproved

Two questions regarding mixed quality production and separate stacks.

Does an assembler accept mixed quality items as input for its recipe - Like, 2 perfect/legendary copper cable and 1 normal/basic iron plate and one normal/basic copper cable to make a green circuit?

If yes, how is the product quality calculated?

There is a specific mode "Any quality" that you have to explicitly choose to allow mixing ingredients of different qualities. The lowest ingredient will be considered only, higher quality on the others is excessive and will have no beneficial effect.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by Effete-Snob

Three questions for the developers:

  • Does the recycling machine have a fluid output, or will recycling something like batteries simply fail to recover the sulfuric acid?
  • How does the quality system interact with train scheduling? If I have a locomotive set to depart when the inventory is full, but a high-quality gear somehow sneaks onto the wagon, will that train be stuck waiting at the station until enough high-quality gears arrive to fill that one stack?
  • Will the mod API provide a way for recipes to weight quality output besides influence of modules? Say, a more expensive version of the green circuit recipe that provides a higher chance to output a better quality green circuit?

All fluids get lost on recycling, furthermore no smelting or chemical recipes can get reversed.

Quality items behave completely as separate items, so a full train with having a single quality gear in some slot will prevent the train from completing inventory full condition.

Recipes with a specific quality, I don't know.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by Wiwiweb

Haven't seen anyone share my question/concern here yet.

If quality doesn't affect science production, then this is just about malls. You'll have your normal prod/speed setup for science, but you'll need to create a whole new thing for malls. You can't just leech ingredients from science anymore.

Creating malls is already an unpopular part of Factorio, so I wonder how this will pan out. I'm waiting to try it out before forming a stronger opinion.

You can still import normal quality circuits etc into the mall, and just recycle the final products in the mall, that making the whole quality problems stay in the mall.

about 1 year ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by ConspicuousBassoon

I feel like a lot of people who are saying they don't like this are forgetting that it's completely optional. Not only do you not have to engage with quality, it sounds like you can just avoid researching it altogether (unless quality modules are required in some unrevealed space age crafts). There are some valid criticisms to be made (the quality names especially), but I think converting this system into modules was the correct way to handle it

Yes, no quality related research is required to complete the game in space age.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by KuuLightwing

I actually think that random element fits factorio. As others pointed out, the kovarex process and the uranium processing also has random in it and it shows how nicely it breaks the design monotony.

Kovarex doesn't have randomness though, does it? It's deterministic, 40 U235 + 5 U238 = 41 U235 + 2 U238. Which is kinda the problem with these, compared to uranium. With uranium processing, I have to deal with randomness during the initial bootstrap process, after which I have deterministic production of U235, and random U235 is just small additional bonus at that point.

With these, if I need longer range power poles for some reason, or the fabled 25% productivity modules, I have no choice but to engage with RNG. And considering how many modules I'd need, and how slow are they to make, it's going to be just a nightmare. Oh, and you added quality penalty for speed, so we'd have to build absolutely enormous factories that just craft modules over and over to get the ones we need.

I wouldn't say that this is the best direction to take the game in. I would rather have new recipies, than the old one that I just have to repeat until I get what I need.

I don't understand the confusion. Yes, it would be annoying if you had to do it manually, but the point of Factorio is to automate everything, even the taming the process of the randomness.

With the uranium processing, even if you get the kovarex process, you still have an imput that is result of a randomised ratio, and you have to deal with it.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Ansible32

Does this mean I'm going to need circuits to set up a basic mall with sensible limits? Will I be able to make blueprints that don't care about quality? In a lot of cases it sounds like quality would just break a lot of stuff we do presently.

No, why would you?
Why would quality break anything? I think you got confused about how this is planned to work. As long as you don't explictelly insert a quality module in the assembling machine, there will be no quality related mechanics.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by M1k3y_11

Well, there goes my smart train station system. This will be a big challenge to support "mixed" belts of items.

I never saw anyone putting quality stuff into trains so far, it would probably be useful if someone went the most extreme path, but for normal cases, there is no need for that.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by salbris

I hope there is also a major overhaul of inventory planned because while vanilla is not a big deal my modded inventories are already a complete disaster to navigate. This is certainly only going to make that worse.

Nothing forces you to keep different qualities of the same item in your inventory at the same time. I rarely do it.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Argonanth

I'm more worried about my trains. I know they've said there will be some updates to trains but right now everything would instantly break. The current (and common) way of handling trains is just a "wait until full" -> "wait until empty" but this doesn't work if you never get a full stack of whatever quality was inserted into the train.

I never saw a base where people would transport quality stuff by trains. It is something you rarely want or need.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by laserbeam3

Does that mean that until quality is researched, you only get normal quality items? Otherwise it sounds like stacks would break.

The start of quality is slightly unclear in the article.

"Not all of the quality tiers will be available from the beginning" sounds like some quality tiers are available (but invisible) from the beginning of the game. Even though the next phrase suggests that's the beginning of quality research.

You cant normally (without usage of cheats or editor) get the quality modules before activating the research, but yes, theoretically if you cheated the quality modules in before the technology would be researched, the modules wouldn't really do anything useful, as they couldn't go higher then normal quality.

Here, by the beginning, we mean the research of the first tier of quality modules.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Ansible32

Oh ok. I thought quality would come regardless, in which case managing malls would be a nightmare because you might limit a chest to one stack and then you get two different qualities and the assembler output is jammed even though you potentially only have one item in the stack.

If quality probabilities would be automatically applied everywhere it would be a horrible pain indeed.
Existing factories will work as before, the only change happens when you insert quality module somewhere, and then, you need to deal with the outcome.

I'm afraid that more people got confused about it.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by SorryAboutTomorrow

Is it not pretty common to have a remote factory that build something like plastic and bring them to another part of your factory via trains? If you add some quality modules to your plastic factory, you have to deal with the factory producing multiple quality types of plastic that have to get loaded into trains.

You could use quality modules in these specialised remote Factories, but in practice people (including me) just use the improved productivity modules in these to avoid having to deal with quality items on a big scale.

And if we need a plastic locally in higher quality, it is usually a smaller scale, and we do it locally, or just avoid it at all.

The point is, that using quality on a big scale remote setups is a probably a super late game strategy, which is hard to manage, and the motivation to do so is to squeeze the extra quality output for the sake of complications which could be a wanted challenge at this point.






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