This week we will talk about some technology and research related changes coming in 2.0 and the Space Age expansion.

Quality clarificationskovarex

It was rather interesting to read the reactions to the last FFF-375 about quality.
It sparked a lot of debate and we noticed a lot of misconceptions about it. So we would like to address some of the biggest ones:

  • When you don't put quality modules somewhere, everything works as before, so you don't have to sort everything everywhere as some people thought.
  • The random aspect of the mechanic seems to be very upsetting to a lot of people.
    I have to agree, that there are a lot of situations where I hate the randomness in games, but the context really matters greatly.
    For example, I decided to never ever play Settlers of Catan again, as the random dice can decide the winner of the game way too often for my liking.
    But the Factorio case is very different. The reason is, that you rarely depend on the random result, because you (hopefully) produce at a large scale and the law of large numbers will just transform probabilities into ratios. The more you produce the more it evens out.
  • The core of what makes Factorio good is that the horrible huge grind you would need to get all the resources can be mitigated by automation.
    It is quite similar with quality, as the annoyance of the grind and unpredictability related to randomness in other games can be just pummeled by the sheer output of your Factory.
  • The most simple approach is to produce all the ingredients in normal quality.
    So most of the Factory (typically) produces non-quality stuff and mainly provides for research (non-quality) and the huge amount of items to be processed by the small quality part.
    In our playthroughs, the parts of the factory which were dealing with the quality were less than 5% of the whole Factory, so don't worry about being forced to solve all the mixed quality items everywhere.
  • The names are the easiest thing to change. Maybe I don't take myself and the game too seriously and found it amusing, but if we had a very good counter-proposal which feels good and is clear when it comes to tiers, we can still change it.
  • The fact that there isn't just "the one" blueprint for circuits, etc., because it depends on the stage of the game and your dedication to quality is something we see as an improvement. Either you have more blueprints for different stages of the game, or you have to improvise more. And mainly, if you actually shoot for the best setups, you can still have the same approach as with beacons, that you build for a legendary setup and just accept that it is not perfect now and upgrade it as you get more of the good items, very similar with beacon setups before full tier-3 modules are available.
  • I used the "it's optional" argument, but I didn't mean it as an excuse for "It's sh*tty but it's ok, because you don't have to use it".
    I understand that if the mechanics provide an upgrade, you can't say it is optional, as our gamer-optimizer brains are just programmed to progress to better stuff. And it is painful to decide to ignore some better stuff just because I don't like the mechanics to get there. This leads to the biggest proverb we always repeat: "The best strategy needs to be fun".
    The main part of the optionality was that you decide optionally where and when you want to use it.
    There are still players who prefer to play without beacons and modules, so some small value in the optionality for these exist as well.
  • The last very frequent opinion was, that it would be better use this opportunity to introduce a lot of interesting custom recipes to get all the qualities of different items.
    But avoiding this was the cornerstone of the design. I can only design the game around what I enjoy, and I just don't enjoy having to keep track of a huge number of unique recipes, which all work technically basically the same.
    The fact, that the most simple approach (mostly) means using similar blueprint to produce different kind of quality items is generally a goal, as it helps to downscale the time investment needed to progress, since this is just one of the expansion mechanics, and we want to keep the game time reasonable.
    I would compare it to repeating the design of rail intersections, no one is complaining, that they can repeat their blueprint in many places, because we have blueprints and construction robots to avoid the grind related to building repeating patterns.
    In other words, there is a relatively straightforward way to go through it and get the best items, but the design still allows for some very non-trivial custom setups if you want to optimize more and enjoy the theory-crafting. Easy to learn, hard to master.

Overall, the design was driven by our own enjoyment. We play the game and we don't want to bloat it with grindy clutter.
I can't expect everyone to enjoy games the same way I do, it is okay and I respect that. But I believe there will be enough players who will enjoy the ride with us.

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This is a simple build to create Assembling machine 3 in quality.
If there's more than 100 of any quality, it recycles them hoping to get the next tier.
The build only receives the basic ingredients from "the normal factory", and all of the quality complications remain here.
In earlier stages you'll likely have just a few of these kinds of builds for items you prioritize the most, however with time you will likely add more of these.
...with which some more upcoming features might help you. ;)

Discovering new materialsV453000

When it comes to how planets and especially their unique resources are discovered, we have realized problems with how Factorio has been doing this for a while now.

If a planet is unlocked by a technology on some science tier, then the starting resources of the planet would also be gated behind these same science packs - because what else, you don't have anything else available yet. This would mean that you could (and most typically would) already be researching ways to process the new unique resource that you have not even seen yet.

Another most fundamental conflict was that we wanted the progress on each planet to result in a single new science pack, resulting in a chicken-or-egg situation. The problem would be, this science pack should need most of the new unique processing steps on that planet, therefore you need to somehow get to discovering the processing first.

The alternative would have been that the science pack is made available immediately on arrival, but then it couldn't really be too interesting as it wouldn't include any of the processing you have discovered past that point.
The science pack is the primary export for each planet, so in order to prevent planets being just simple mining outposts with a rocket silo, we wanted to make sure most of the processing contributes to produce such science pack.

We have tried to design and implement several approaches in various forms of temporary science packs and even special entities that would act as temporary laboratories, but all of them were just adding mess that wasn't useful afterwards, as it was just a stepping stone to get back to producing a proper science pack that you would eventually ship back to laboratories on your home planet.

Trigger technologies

The solution that ticks all the boxes is in the end incredibly simple - we added a new method of researching a technology. Instead of processing science packs in a laboratory, technologies can now be completed with a trigger.
Currently we have a few technology triggers that unlock research:

  • Mining an entity
  • Crafting an item/fluid
  • Launching a rocket with a certain item

This means that each time you land on a planet, you discover and exploit its new resources in a way that feels quite natural, as everything happens while you're actually there.

This will make a lot more sense with specific examples once we show you the actual planets and not just this technical background, but there's more...

We can apply this elsewhere

As we're sure you remember, there are times even in the base game where you do discover new resources - specifically oil and uranium processing. Just like researching processing for a new resource on a different planet, it's similarly strange for the same reasons that you can research deep into oil refining tech tree while you haven't even seen a crude oil patch yet, or unlocking nuclear reactors without having met uranium.

Now in order to really get into oil processing, you will need to have touched some crude oil. This helps prevent the situation where especially in the "green science" tier, a lot of players would research very far ahead from what their factory can currently process, and then later feel discouraged seeing all the piled up recipes to work through.

Early game

There's more coming from this - when you crash land on the very first planet! Why does the player immediately know how to craft steam engines, inserters, transport belts? It always feels much better in games when your progression starts as low as possible and you can earn all of the things in the process, which makes it all feel much more deserved in the end.

With the triggers, we could create new technologies for even basic things like pipes, early power generation, labs and the Automation science pack.

Some unlocks, like electric mining drill, radar or repairs packs don't need to be available at the very beginning, so in turn we could add them into their own new "red science" technologies.

Early game technology graph. You can also see for example Steel axe technology now requires you to craft actual steel plates, so you can't just get the steel axe upgrade without having made steel, which has always been weird since steel axe is no longer a real item.

As a result, the following will be all of your starting recipes. Getting back to having unlocked all the recipes you are used to at the start doesn't really take any extra time than previously - the early trigger technologies only require a minimal amount of items to be crafted. But it still contributes to making the progression feel better.

As will become apparent with more things in future FFFs, during the development of the expansion we have arrived to various topics just like this one which stretched beyond the acceptable weirdness threshold, and had to address it in Space Age. The improvements also impacted the base game in a good way - and we are certain that mods will make good use of this as well.

Research queue always onKlonan

Research queue was a feature that was long requested, and after initially adding it, some playtesting of the game with the feature enabled led us to feel that it had some significant drawbacks (FFF-254). After some more playtesting and community feedback, we settled on a compromise whereby the research queue can be enabled with a map setting when starting the game (FFF-255).

This was okay, but it came with its own problems. A major source of frustration was when you would start the game, play for a while, only to realize after a few hours that you (or your friend who started the server) forgot to enable the research queue. There was no way to enable the queue after starting without using console commands, which would disable achievements.

During 1.1 development, we wanted to address the problem of new recipe discoverability a little bit better, so we added the recipe notifications (FFF-363). The recipe notifications meant that one of the initial negatives of the research queue (for new players and discovering items) was no longer present.

Over the years there have also been a fair share of bugs related to the research queue that we have had to fix, and having 2 code paths and GUI layouts in all the places (Queue vs No Queue) was becoming annoying. In the end we decided to just completely embrace the research queue, and remove all the code related to not having it enabled. So now it is always on and you cannot turn it off, there is no off. There is no longer the strange 'After you launch the rocket' condition for the queue, and no longer will you ever forgot to enable it before starting the game.

Productivity researchesKlonan

We wanted to add some more infinite technologies, and also reduce the resource pressure as the game goes along. The mining productivity is great, and it works very well, but it doesn't give the player much choice in the end-game. The other infinite technologies are more specialized, lots of combat ones, but other than maybe worker robot speed, not much for your production.

So we added a new type of productivity research, the recipe productivity research. Each level will increase the 'built-in' productivity of certain recipes, such as steel, processing units, rocket control units, etc.

We also wanted to let you unlock something super powerful for the end-game, which led us to the idea of the research productivity. Each level will increase the built-in productivity of your labs, and as you might know, that is the most effective place for your productivity modules already. It will require the end-game resources, of which details will come in some future FFFs.

As always, let us know what you think at the usual places.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by DanmakuGrazer

Infinite crafting productivity research will make it impossible to have lasting perfect assembler ratios for endgame items, which sounds pretty exciting. Transporting materials by train to a dedicated production site will probably be a lot more effective, and you might even oversaturate your output belts eventually. Interesting stuff to think about during the most monotonous part of the game.

Also love the changes to early game research, I felt overwhelmed when I started even in the tutorial. They won't make a difference to someone who already knows what they're doing, but they'll help get new players used to all their starting tools.

Keep in mind that just few selected recipes have this research, not all.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Learwin

What was the determining factor for which recipes have been chosen? From the post it seems like high cost intermediates.

We chose several important/influental recipes. There are things like steel (Something you can do before you go to space), blue chips, plastic, low density structure and few other things. But these things can change easily, so the list might change on a whim.

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by Asddsa76

I don't like gating refineries and chemplant research behind setting up an oil pumpjack.

Currently, I automate tens of pumpjacks, refineries, and chemplants, along with necessary railway, then set up a refinery outpost somewhere with oil + coal + water in one go.

The new system would require going there once to set up pumpjacks to unlock the research, going back to your main base to automate refineries/chemplants, and then finally going back to set up the rest of the outpost.

Yeah we will probably consider moving the entities to be along with pumpjacks while only the recipes are unlocked with the trigger. It's a little weird that you can have chemical plants and refineries without a single recipe for a bit of time, though...

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Nazeir

What happens to the infinity research when your base prod bonus is 300%? It wouldn't provide any more bonuses right? So what's the point of continuing to research it?

30 levels will probably be too expensive to make it reachable in a normal way. Or we can just change from unlimited to 30 levels, but virtually infinite anyway.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Asddsa76

I don't like gating refineries and chemplant research behind setting up an oil pumpjack.

Currently, I automate tens of pumpjacks, refineries, and chemplants, along with necessary railway, then set up a refinery outpost somewhere with oil + coal + water in one go.

The new system would require going there once to set up pumpjacks to unlock the research, going back to your main base to automate refineries/chemplants, and then finally going back to set up the rest of the outpost.

We are aware of this. The gameplay changes, so you have to first acquire oil before being able to even start researching the infrastructure to eventually craft and build it. The concesus was, that it basically just adds a new constraint on the way you progress through the middle game, which can be part of the strategy.

For example, if you want to be efficient, you need to prepare a time when your factory can build what you need, while you find the oil in advance.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Radoslawy

1 - if quality probability isn't a problem because with a big factory it will turn into ratios why not have it as a ratio from the start, instead of having 25% probability to make a better tier why not have every fourth item better (still dislike it tho, it will make blueprints worse and putting same recycler loop for every building in mall seems boring) 2 - productivity research will make ratios impossible

We actually spent some time in the office discussing the alternative, to change the quality to work as progress bar, basically, you would have to go through, lets say, 4 cycles of production, to produce one result, but of higher quality. It has some pros and cons.
The main con is, that some of the more intricate theory-crafting setups wouldn't exist anymore. Also as it was mentioned, it would probably mean loosing the progress towards legendary when you relocate the building or just change a recipe, which could be quite a huge loss with some of the legendary stuff.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by StarryGlobe089

Triggered research sounds great! Perhaps they should be color coded differently in the research tree so that you can identify what needs manual action.

Will research always be unlocked by either science packs or trigger, or can a research require both?

You can distinquish them by not having science pack icons in the bottom. If both trigger and research is desired, it can be easily just two technologies one depending on another.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Choice_Percentage_26

I would like to have the option to show a message in chat when a research is completed, like in the "Improved Resarch Queue" mod by sonaxaton. With the queue like it is now it is easy to miss what research was completed.

We somehow forgot to include it in the FFF, even when I implemented it yesterday just to make the topic a whole. (Implemented sounds little bit too much for the 6 lines of changes, including the localisation and changelog entry)

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by megalogwiff

How can the endgame research be infinite, if productivity is capped at 300%?

Also, designing perfect ratios for late game just became practically impossible.

The research cost scales fast enough that it's not really possible to reach level 30. Also, at some point when you get beyond 300% including productivity modules (or other bonuses), you can start replacing productivity modules with speed modules inside of machines.

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by FlurgBungler

Are the changes to research and the trigger technologies going to be exclusive to Space Age, or will they change the base game too?

This is for the base game as well.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by sonaxaton

Do technologies that require a trigger work even if you trigger it while the technology is locked behind other technologies? Like does it "remember" that you triggered it in the past, so you would instantly research it once it becomes available?

That is a good question. I think that it currently unlocks no matter what, but I can imagine it being configurable. Or maybe there should be another state of the technology which would mean something like "triggered, but waiting for prerequisities to be unlocked", basically what you suggest.
It would probably make the most sense.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by lee1026

If the cost is exponential like the current ones, even very large factories won’t be touching level 30. Two to the power of 30 is a lot.

It depends on the base of exponent. There are interesting differences when the exponent is for example 2 versus 1.8 or 1.5 etc.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Kano96

Most of these seem like low output volume recipes, is that on purpose? It makes sense to me, you are unlikely to fill a full belt of steel, so the extra productivity won't cause any issues in most cases. (and it's not a big deal to design these factories with some extra output belt capacity in mind)

Plastic seems like the odd one out in that aspect tho. I like the inclusion of an oil product, but I feel like a combined oil processing/liquefaction or just rocket fuel would make more sense.

Yea, low output volume recipes are the good choise because of the reasons you provided.

Also I like that we have one infinite research that doesn't even need space science, so you have more choises of what you want to do at each stage of the game.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by P0L1Z1STENS0HN

To put a price to that - according to the screenshot the 2nd level needs 2250 science packs. I think it's safe to assume the same exponential progression as with e.g. artillery range.

Then, if I put it into my spreadsheet correctly, the total needed to get to level 30, is 1,207,959,550,875.

Assuming that all the quality improvements allow us to reach 50k spm, that's just over 1100 years of playtime; and we would have to get to 1M spm to be able to live to see level 30. And then it takes just as long as all previous levels together, to research level 31...

Not all exponentials have 2 as a base :)
Basically, the lower the base is, the more likely it is, that it have a meaning to choose between the recipes strategically, instead of making everything at the same level.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by SmartAlec105

“I hate this mechanic” is perfectly fine as feedback. Not the most useful form but it’s still worth knowing that a lot of people dislike an idea.

If people really understand the mechanics and their implications and hate it, its valid stance. But this post was mainly addressed to people which hated it for all the wrong reasons.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by P0L1Z1STENS0HN

From my own experience, you can even build a 16k spm megabase without a single reactor. However, I definitely needed uranium to get the necessary train acceleration/speed. The trains are consuming about 10 nuclear fuel per minute.

Since all the multiplicative factors of quality stuff on production, speed and solar panels. The ratio between production and power generation tends to be way less extreme (less power generation) in megabases compared to vanilla, which is also a wanted effect.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by pancakeQueue

I work at a semi conductor company. That company produces so many silicon wafers. The silicon wafers are checked for quality and those of lesser quality are reprocessed. I view this feature in factorio the same.

There are too many people out there, who think that automation in the real world is infinitelly precise and there are no better or worst products. Therefore, they assume that it doesn't factorio, but the reality is just the opposite.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Thenumberpi314

You can recycle spidertrons in a recycler that has quality modules.

Congratulations, as you might be the first person outside wube to realize this is the only way. We realized it a long time ago, and found it to be so hilarious, that we made a special achievement for consuming a legendary fish, it is probably one of the most hardcore achievements in the game :)

Today's fish is trout a la creme.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by MrCatUa

Doesnt productivity research and it being capped at +300% mean that you can get net neutral (put 1 in, get 1 out) recycling to legendary loops? That makes the whole thing much simpler in end game.

Correct, we also noticed that and discussed it, and there are 2 ways to look at it:
1) It would be very expensive to get there, but maybe at that point it would be interesting to have something change so drastically, that you can have legendary stuff (just the few select recipes) in the highest quality wihout an extra cost. I like the idea of infinite research having some "turning point" in some extreme future where things change, instead of just gradually growing.
2) We would just nerf things around a little to not allow it, the numbers could be changed just a little bit to make this never happen. But it would still mean that the ratio of getting the legendary items would be much nicer for the player as the turning point would be getting closer anyway, and that is fine.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by OleschY

That comment about Catan is very confusing to me. We are talking about the law of big numbers but assume that only one game of catan is played, or what?

Well, if I wanted to play a match of 1000 games to decide who is better, it would be as you suggest. But it rarely is the case. And even if it is, it is quite a big investment to figure out which strategy is actually better. Imagine playing 1000 games and the realizing "Ok, so this strategy doesn't work, lets try something different for the next 1000" :)
This is why poker, for example, stands much better, because one round of poker is way faster compared to one game of catan.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Mnemonicly

Are the trigger technologies things that need to be queued in order to proc the research or if I craft 10 copper plates will I automatically unlock electronics?

It doesn't need to be queued. But when there is nothing else going on, the technology gets queued automatically to display the progress.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by SmartAlec105

I will say that I’ve come around on Quality for the most part but I do feel like it has a high chance of misleading new players into thinking they’re supposed to start using the highest quality options as soon as they are available. You can see this happen when they replace every inserter with fast inserters even though those are overkill most of the time.

I like these research unlock methods. I’ve seen Seablock do similar which was a great way to help guide the player at the start.

You can't have a good strategy, when there is no way to play a bad strategy. No pleasure without suffering. That is life I guess.

Factorio always had strategy aspect, but the expansion apmlifies it, which was the goal.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Denuro

I'd love to see the productivity recipes requiring the item you're researching as a cost.

Wanna increase the productivity of the rocket control unit? Yeah you're gonna need some ammount of rocket control in that research.

I just have no idea how that would be implemented in the lab. Maybe a new building used just to pay the costs of productivity researches?

We were actually considering exactly this.
But the reason we declined this idea was, that having one central resource (the whole research) improving one specific thing is more strategical compared to just "sacrifising" some part of the production to make it better over time.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Mytho0110

Great FFF, few thoughts on the new trigger method. New players will benefit greatly from this, and on that premise alone it should be included. Without new players the longevity of this game diminishes. However,, veteran players will be bothered by it as they now have an artificial road block that they must push through. If I use myself for example, I build with a backwards design. I start with what I want the end to look like and I work my way back to the start. So when I build oil, I first design my oil refinery and then go plug in oil to it. Same with electronics, Ill often have gears and electronics already set up and awaiting input for my starter base. Now I would have to wait to craft 50 iron before being able to see green circuits.

My suggestion to allow for new player experience, and accommodate veteran players, would be to tie the trigger unlocks to the UI function of highlight new recipes. This would allow a new player to have this on by default, but a veteran player to turn it off and not be hindered by it. Thus allowing both to have what is best needed for them.

I understand the concern. But I think it is just another limitation we have to play around. Limitations create strategy.
But mainly, it didn't really feel like a bad thing even for us when tested the game as a whole, it actually felt more organic to do it differently.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by neon_hexagon

Regarding quality

I used the "it's optional" argument, but I didn't mean it as an excuse for "It's shitty but it's ok, because you don't have to use it".

Lol, because that's exactly how I'm using it. The justifications given still don't entice me to use quality. I still don't like it and don't understand why it needs to exist. There already is quality: assembler 1, assembler 2, etc. The randomness is annoying and not fun.

By the way. We were thinking ahead, and the expansion is actually divided in a few mods and quality is already separated into a mod.

This means, that you can play with quality but without the planets, or the other way around. So you don't even need to mod it out of the game, u just uncheck this feature.

The actual motivation mainly was for mods replacing our space content with their own overhaul to still be able to just activate the default quality (or other stuff) without the need to do it manually.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by robot_wth_human_hair

I really dont think so. There are items where it will make sense more than others. Assemblers, sure. Inserters? No way. Power poles?.....maybe. this is a self limiting system. Nobody says you need an entirely legendary base from belts to assemblers.

Actually, inserters or even power poles make sense.You need to realize that quality is a multiplicator of price, so if something is cheap to begin with, making more quality version of it is way more affordable (lab is a great example), while making legendary spidertrons and such, that is where the craziness starts ...

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by sawbladex

... okay, this just confirms to me that base quality should have been zero, because going to zero pips to 2 pips is sending me.

There is a very good reason why we need an icon for the normal quality.
We don't show the icon on items in inventory and such if it is normal obviously, but since you can filter quality only (without the item part of the filter), you need a way to display (for example), that you want only normal quality on a splitter to go right. But how do you show an icon of normal quality if there isn't one?

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by PervertTentacle

Also I like that we have one infinite research that doesn't even need space science

Doesn't it need space science period or is there a point that it will require space science?

Is it same with productivity for RCU? Is it 5 Nauvis packs indefinitely?

If so really great choice here, makes you balance different packs and gives your Nauvis base something to do while you're on the other planet building new stuff

Exactly, doesn't need space science ever.
All of the productivity researches are like that.

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by i-make-robots

u/kovarex how do you mine oil before researching oil?

You research pumpjacks, and then unlock the processing by building these pumpjacks

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by black_sky

God I'm so excited to put another 200 hours into a standard playthrough.

If you go nuts with quality, it can easily be more than that. A friend told me.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Narase33

Can you make it possible to re-sort the research queue? I often find myself filling up the queue just to notice that I need a specific research ASAP. Then I have to delete the queue and set it up again...

That sounds like a good idea actually!

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by NelsonMinar

Can someone explain in detail what's happening with the animation of a factory producing assembly machine 3 "in quality"? The label says

This is a simple build to create Assembling machine 3 in quality. If there's more than 100 of any quality, it recycles them hoping to get the next tier. The build only receives the basic ingredients from "the normal factory", and all of the quality complications remain here.

I get the goal but I don't understand in detail what the various lines of machines are doing.

Hi, the first row of machines is just crafting assembling machines from normal ingredients. Then, they are sorted into chests separated by quality by splitters. Each cheat has an inserter connected by circuit network reading if the chest has enough assembling machines. If it has enough, it sends that quality tier to recycling, and you hope to get a higher tier result from the recycler, or you just shove the results back to make more assembling machines for another chance to increase quality. Eventually the highest quality tier chest fills, and the setup stops… or you manually do because you discover it ate all of your red circuits 😂

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Nazeir

Awesome, does this mean an overhaul to the mod management page? Or is that a discussion for another Friday lol

No overhaul is needed. Base was almost "just another mod" which you can turn on or off since the beginning. The exapnsion is technically just few other mods on top of that.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Thenumberpi314

Does this also mean that for example activating the quality mod changes around some balance to account for it? Or is it purely turning on/off various mechanics?

I think this would also be important to mention somewhere more available than scrolling three quarters down this post, like in the FFF itself. I saw a number of complaints where people said "if i dont want to use quality ill still be annoyed by it being in the research menu", which would be solved if you can simply not turn on quality for the playthrough.

No balancing isn§t planned. It would feel like unnecessary complication. Imagine having a value somehwere on a wiki, saying, oh the cost is 10 but with quality mod enabled, it is 15 etc. Or even activating quality and loading existing save finding out that balance is suddenly different :)

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by ceresward

It wasn't quite clear to me from the FFF, does the triggered research progress automatically once it is available, or do you still have to select it as the active research target first?

It progresses automatically.

3 months ago - /u/V453000 - Direct link

Originally posted by Keulapaska

So is the scaling same as worker robot speed tech, which is exponential and get's ludicrously expensive or more like mining productivity, where it's still expensive, but attainable to get to the max? Or some combo in between.

Right now we have something in between, but it might very well be just exponential in the end, this is subject to balancing and we'll see, really.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Illiander

So what happens when there's a trigger tech that depends on an unresearched tech?

Currently, it is just "force" researched instantly, but it could be tweaked.

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by robotic_rodent_007

Will the research triggers and research queue be in the base game, or the expansion?

Can mods use recipe specific production research without the expansion? It seems pretty divorced from the overall expansion systems that have been revealed.

Yes, this is core game feature available for everyone. (including the changes in the base game)

3 months ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Mehovod

Can we now scroll logs up? In mods like SE and, especially, in multiplayer we have lots of messages in chat. It always was a problem for me to not be able to check all of them if I was AFK for a while.

Not currently, we could consider it.

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