about 1 year ago - kovarex, Klonan - Direct link

Hello, welcome, take a seat...


Update from last time

The tile building animation showcased in the previous FFF is now integrated in the game, and this is how it looks:

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Of course being in the engine doesn't mean it's completely done. It is still quite WIP and we have things we would like to improve with it, but showing a bit of progress week-by-week is also part of the fun.


Super force buildingkovarex

In the recent FFF-380 we talked about the possibility of building ghost entities on the top of ghost tiles, so you don't have to wait until landfill or space platform tiles are finished to build on top of them.

This is nice, but this obviously was just a preparation for the main feature we all missed so much, the super forced building.

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CTRL + SHIFT + CLICK = Super forced building

In the beginning, we had just the normal way to build blueprints, and anything in the way blocked the blueprint from being built.
Soon after, we realized that we need an automated way to get rid of all the trees, rocks, and cliffs in the way, so we added the forced build mode (shift + click by default) to do that.

Since that time, it happened frequently here and there, that we felt it still isn't enough. Space platform building was the last push where we just couldn't ignore this anymore and had to implement it. With landfill, it is an occasional problem as water is not everywhere, but with space platform building, it is always a problem.

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Once we already had the super forced building mode, it was natural to include the other properties of it.
The mindset behind super force building, is that you want to force the full blueprint no matter what, like building rails through a solar field, so this is how we made it behave.

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Super force building will mark anything in the way for deconstruction.

Manual super forced building

We were only speaking about blueprints up to this point, but once the super force building worked its way into our muscle memory, we started to try to use it when building entities manually. It is similar to how you can build ghosts manually with the shift modifier, and get rid of trees in the way automatically.

So we added the super force building as a direct build shortcut, not just a specialized blueprint building modifier.

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Belt interaction

Once we got used to this, there was a pattern that started to emerge. We would super force build over belts, and then have to manually fix them right after.

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If you are a regular reader, you know that the word manually is always an indication of change.

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Super force building over belts automatically places undergrounds


Mining landfillKlonan

Landfill has always been a little bit tricky. As it stands it kinda breaks a fundamental symmetry in the base building, in that everything you build can be unbuilt, any mistake erased without judgement. But with landfill, one wrong click and it's there forever.

It has long been on our wishlist to make mining landfill work, but the code and logic around tile building and mining were not set up effectively for it. One major problem is that tile placement/removal would instantly and uncompromisingly destroy or kill anything that was colliding with it when it was changed. Additionally, mining landfill is a specific case, but making the system generalized for all combinations of placing and mining tiles with varying collision masks (for example a placeable water mod) would involve touching a lot of systems (building, mining, blueprints, upgrades, deconstruction).

With the super force building, the problem of 'no way back' when building landfill was even more dangerous and liable to misclicks, so we knew we had to make mining landfill happen.

Through hard work and dedication, Roman was able to clean up all the tile building and mining code, handle all the cases of collisions between entities and tiles, and make it work in a really nice and intuitive way. You can even see some evidence of the groundwork for this back in the 1.1.50 release (December 2021), where we added the TilePrototype 'check_collision_with_entities' property.

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You can notice that the landfill underneath the player wasn't marked for deconstruction. In general, landfill can't be mined if there is something on top, but typically entities on top (machines, furnaces, belts etc.) will also be marked for deconstruction anyway, so they will be removed and allow the landfill to be mined.

And with the new super force building, it is only natural that we make the interaction with landfill work in the opposite direction.

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These both put together make stamping down steam engine or reactor setups so much nicer and less worrisome.


As always, super force your thoughts to us at the usual places.

about 1 year ago - /u/Klonan - Direct link

Originally posted by fine03

this is huge

will these features trickle down into the base game without the need of expansion?

They are base game 2.0 features, expansion is not needed to use super force building or mining landfill

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by thejakkle

Is there going to be an 'empty space' you can add to blueprints I wonder. The forced build is great but if it leaves a rogue belt or inserter because it didn't collide with the new blueprint that could cause havoc with what you've just built.

That sounds like a reasonable idea! For example, If I want to build 4X4 balancer on top of 4 belts, it doesn't end well, and it always needs manual intervention to fix it. But if I could add a deconstruction marker in the blueprint on the few tiles that need to be empty, it would be useful.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Mornar

I have one question. What does that mean for biters? We can now moat them off in vanilla. Surely, surely something will change about them?

You can only mine landfil, which means water had to be there in the first place. So you can't just moat-off your whole base if it wasn't on island in the first place.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by RedsToad

Oml all of these changes are so so wonderful. The gif of super forcing entities over belts brought so so much satisfaction I love you factorio team!

The one thing that mildly bothers me is belt preview being weird, seen here https://imgur.com/a/rJKjDO4

I know. It is a technical detail that had a lower priority, but I will probably not be able to hold myself from fixing it.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Nicksaurus

If any developers read this - how complicated is the algorithm to automatically place underground belts? I can imagine there are some pathological cases where you would have to do some sort of complicated graph search to find a solution that keeps all the belts connected

Also, this mechanic makes me even more certain that we're getting swimming and/or flying biters in the expansion, otherwise you could just build a moat around your factory and never worry about attacks again

The belt replacing logic is made to only work in obvious cases of straight belt connections.
It also works when you are about to extend an existing underground connection by building on top of underground belt (which we probably have included in the original video).

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by seky16

Question: when super force building upgrade of an entity (eg. blue belt over red belt), do we get them marked for upgrade or marked for deconstruction and ghosted new ones?

If not, can we? That would be a great upgrade to the feature

They are marked for upgrade if possible.
With the "plowing" through belts, it is done through deconstruction, to not mix possibly difffernet belt contents.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by I_am_a_fern

What else could happen ?
Same thing if for some reason your logistic network is out of undies.

Yes, it is skipped and the preview also doesn't show it, to indicate it is too far.

about 1 year ago - /u/kovarex - Direct link

Originally posted by Nicksaurus

Ah right, so it only places the undergrounds if the total width of the thing you're placing is short enough for a single connection to cover it?

yes






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