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TLDR: When Ivern clears Krugs it should also spawn the second and third set of Medium and Mini-Krugs. In total it would take Ivern 7.5 seconds of channelling (3 times per set) + the 40-1 seconds (based on level) waiting for the first grow to finish before you can collect it OR a smite. Set 2 and 3 of the Krugs should be instantly collected similar to how it works when Ivern marks a camp without a big jungle Monster.

Ivern only gets gold and XP from the Big (Ancient) Krug and the Medium Krug that are already there, equal to about 27% XP and 36% gold compared to other junglers. This was a "nerf" he received years ago when junglers had worse clear speeds and sustain to level the playing field.

The math could be slightly outdated, since it is something I pulled from the IvernMain's Discord, and it being 1 year old, but the principle should still be the same.

To explain quickly, Ivern does NOT get full gold and XP from Krugs because of how quickly he could clear it if he got full gold and XP from them with smite Versus other junglers. As a result of this Ivern is always down in gold and XP because he only gets 27% of the XP from the camp.


This was not a major issue before this season since we could still hit level 4 from 5 camps + Scuttle, but after the Scuttle nerfs we are stuck at level 3 with about 70% XP even after clearing 6 camps, if we opt into clearing Krugs as well (Edit: It seems we might be able to hit level 4 at 3:26 if we full clear). I think at least changing how Ivern interacts with this camp could be a valid thing to look into with the current clear speed and sustain most junglers have.

I am proposing that;Marking and collecting a grow on Krugs will spawn the next set of Krugs until they are all cleared;

1st, The big Krug (Ancient Krug) and Medium Krug: Marking it with a grow will take the normal time (40 sec to 1 sec based on level) before being ready to collect or you can smite it to instantly clear the Big Krug and Medium Krug (similar to how it works at the moment)

2nd set, 2 Medium Krugs and 2 Small Krugs: Marking it will instantly clear it similar to any camp missing the big jungle creep

3rd set, 4 small Krugs: Marking it will instantly clear it similar to any camp missing the big jungle creep

So in total Ivern would need to mark the Krugs camp 3 times (the channel to mark a camp takes 2.5 seconds x 3 = 7.5 seconds) to get all the gold and XP, however when marking the camp the first time he would have to wait 40-1 second for the grow to complete or smite it (similar to how clearing a normal camp) and then have to mark the remaining two sets of Krugs twice to clear them all. In total it should take Ivern 7.5 seconds of channeling + 40-1 second for the grow to complete or a smite to clear the entire camp.

This should be sufficient enough to make the camp "worse" for Ivern but at least give us the option of farming it when we have nothing else to do on the map.

Edit: I actually think you might be able to hit level 4 after clearing 6 camps + Scuttle without leashing lane XP, tested it in the practice tool. It seems that you can hit level 4 with a full clear at 3:26 >___>. Still pretty horrible compared to most other junglers but I thought I should added it to be transparent after doing some testing.

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14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

It's worth noting that a while back more of the Krug camp got pushed into the mini krugs to make champions have to sit there longer to get full gold/xp from the camp.

IMO Ivern should get full "normal camp" rewards (75-85 gold for all non-buff camps / 145-170 xp for all non-gromp camps, before machete) since Ivern clears all camps in the same amount of time and health/mana lost

Currently, Ivern gets 39 gold and 37 xp, which yeah, is about half the gold and significantly less xp.

Totally agree with you. Ivern should be special cased into getting more rewards from the camp. I just don't think he should get full krugs value.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by Ebobab2

Junglers and being worse at their main role than off-role junglers

Name a more iconic duo

TBH jungling this season was the easiest diamond climb I've ever made.

Edit: LMAO people making sh*t up when I have the numbers

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by HalfAssResponse

maybe has to do with removed promos and with how the population of both low diamond and masters has giga inflated this season

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by SergeantAskir

That might also be because diamond is almost top 3% this season and not only top 1% like before :D

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by SomeoneNewToReddit

I 100% agree Ivern probably shouldn't get full Krugs value due to the nature of the way he clears camps! And I also agree that getting full "normal camp" rewards on Krugs would be quite neat!

At the moment I feel myself always gravitating towards the lanes around my blue side jungle since that is the area where I can get the most gold and XP due to the Krugs "nerfs".

Being able to farm Krugs with "normal camp" gold and XP value would be very nice and make it easier to play around both sides of the map since you would get "equal" gold and XP from both sides (slightly more on blue side due to Gromp of course).

Also I really appreciate that you took the time to respond even if nothing comes from this. I get that balancing a low population with a high % of OTP/Mains can be rather difficult, that being said I also really enjoy hearing you guys' opinions on balancing. You, Enso and Squad5 (and Kindlejack for lore) are all amazing at keeping in touch with the community (and of course plenty of other Rioters)!

I think when Riot says "OK we're going to design a unique champion" they sign up for the maintenance cost knowing that it's going to exist.

I think it's OK if champions end up having funky strengths and weaknesses as a result of that uniqueness as long as the champion remains balanced and fun for its intended player base. For example, I think it's conceptually fine that Ivern gets skewed jungle rewards (e.g. always more gold or less xp or a healthier or weaker clear). However, it's currently not worth pathing to part of the map and that feels like a cardinal sin for a jungle champion.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by shrubs311

if diamond is a smaller percent of players, wouldn't that make the climb harder since it's more exclusive?

Correct. The first replies were all about Diamond and Master+ growing this season, making the climb less exclusive. Master+ did indeed grow from .05% -> .1% -> .15%, but that feels reasonable with the inclusion of GM.

Diamond+ as an overall bracket shrunk. Hence me mocking those who just decided out of thin air that D+ grew.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by i_should_get_a_suit

Bruh my plat 4 ass out jungled you on your stream and you tilted off the face of the earth

Sorry, this text is so small, I can't see it all the way down in platinum. Could you speak up?

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by i_should_get_a_suit


(I'm messing with you btw. Your bot did legit suck)


14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by KARMAWHORING_SHITBAY

Does data like this exist for seasons further back? I’ve been consistently platinum and above since season 1, and I feel like since the big rank shift that game quality in platinum has declined as far as what used to be gold in previous seasons, or is that just bias from my end

Not that I can find instantly. I just occasionally update a google sheet.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by 39128038018230

Yo love seeing you bring up numbers

Are these type of data sets publicly available? I might play around with some python and do some data science for fun

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by i_should_get_a_suit

And you wish you could win a single game in said low elo tournaments

Naw, I'm sure /u/umbrianEpoch is too highly-rated to even apply.

14 days ago - /u/PhreakRiot - Direct link

Originally posted by umbrianEpoch

God bless you sir, but I have literally been playing for over a decade and never passed Silver 1. Thanks for the vote of confidence though.

2022 is your year