devtrackers.gg
Finally here :). I'll be around today to answer any questions on this article or anything else in our scope.
Editing in an FAQ for stuff that might be buried that I see being asked a lot repeatedly:
Finally here :). I'll be around today to answer any questions on this article or anything else in our scope.
Editing in an FAQ for stuff that might be buried that I see being asked a lot repeatedly:
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ RIOT AUBERAUN ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Can you expand on goals for filling a similar space to Blind and Normal Draft modes? Does this take the form of new modes/modifications to the normal ruleset?
General thought process we'd go through is something like - why are players picking any specific queue type? What are the motivations/needs, and how well are those queues serving them? Blind for example is really ripe, maybe you choose it because you want to get to game quickly, play a specific champion without having to worry about bans, or play a specific role. But what you get is a free-for-all champ select where fast fingers decide if you pick that popular champ before someone else and how fast you type in chat determines your role, or you just turn your brain off and instalock your champion. That's not an optimal experience, IMO.
We're still thinking along the lines of what was proposed in the prior article:
What does blind pick look like if we guarantee you can get the Champion you want to play and not have to fight for it in Champ Select
Aspirationally...What if we don't even need champ select?
Finally here :). I'll be around today to answer any questions on this article or anything else in our scope.
Would you rather fight 1 sett sized teemo or 100 teemo sized setts?
Solo Only Mode: We’re not currently planning to separate solo and duo parties in Ranked. While we still believe in the logic for why this could be a good idea, we first need to make sure that duo players have another place for a compelling competitive experience. Flex queue doesn’t currently meet that bar.
What do you think flex queue needs in order to become a good competitive experience? The way I see it, with LoL being a team game and all, the party queue should be taken just as seriously as the solo queue (if not more so). It also just conceptually feels strange to split the queues into "1-2" and "more than that" instead of "solo play" and "team play".
This is a pretty complex one and there's a lot we still have to investigate. One thing (not necessarily the most important) I personally think should be part of this is that Solo & Flex shouldn't compete on the same evaluation axis, which means you climb and are evaluated in flex the same way you are in solo, even though you're usually playing with a bunch of friends. This is why you get thoughts like "[X] rank in Flex isn't real [X] rank, what they are in solo queue matters". There were some things really neat about old ranked 5s and things that Clash do today that mitigate this that we might consider revisiting.
To be clear again, this is probably not the most important thing, just one off the top of my head.
A lot of the changes looks great.
Still cant understand why duos having a competitive place to play is more important then solos having the most competitive environment possible. Surely there are a lot more solo players then duos?
Also, its always felt weird to me that you guys at riot have admitted duos make the soloq experience unfair for solo players (you removed duos at the top of the ladder) but seem to not care about it for the vast majority of your playerbase?
Any chance you could elaborate on the thought process behind these things?
Edit: u/Auberaun
There are more solo than duo players playing in the ranked queue, but duos are still a meaningful proportion. You can mitigate the advantage a duo has for most players, like finding a duo of equivalent skill to match them within a reasonable amount of time or if you're facing a duo in gold and can't find any other gold duos, pull in some plat solo players to offset. When you get to ~Masters+, it's a lot harder to make even matches in reasonable amounts of time or pull in anyone better. With a Challenger LCS bot duo we can't pull in Ruler and Keria playing solo to offset :P
I was trolled more for picking a champ that im "not familar with" (meanwhile im m7 on a different account)
Honestly it would be nice if Riot focused on getting rid of smurfs (including me)
Botted accounts would be so easy to detect... You dont curb stomp gold elo after int feeding with yuumi in intro bot games
Right, bots! This will be the bot response!
Bots playing in your games is not ok. We've seen the increased reports and reprioritized some stuff to blast these, first powered-up disintegration wave went out recently and we're not done yet.
One other question: will the suggested runes be dynamic and update as the meta changes, or will there be a set template created by rioters?
Basically, how are the rune pages being created?
Similarly to item recommendations, data driven and dynamically updating.
Will the new loadout recommendations also be available for ARAM? The rune recommendation sounds great for when you play a champion you are not familiar with.
Yeah, they'll work for ARAM.
Any shot we'll have some adjustments to smurf queue? I keep getting into smurf queue on my 11 year old main account because I don't play enough ranked - and coinflipping 40-50 games to get out of there isn't very enjoyable so I just play normals instead.
Yeah, this is what we took a swing at in 12.17 (ranked-based matchmaking is what you call smurf queue). Really rough experience, we probably need to go harder here.
Ok I’ll ask (and probably get ignored because this is a touchy issue). in my elo bracket there are known accounts that massively decrease game integrity. Honestly they could be any one of the following 1) are boosted 2) win trading 3) acc share 4) known griefers. Dodging these lobbies is my only defense against playing out these low quality games. Why take that away? These players are not punished because usually it’s a non detectable soft disruption of the game that the system can’t pick up.
On top of that, certain players have beef with other players where they just grief each other on sight. Idk, also the fact that matchmaking is optimized for things like engagement and retention and purposefully gives you manipulated lobbies to manage your rank and prevent climbing. I will admit that if there was one singular way to eliminate dodging except for champion select hostage situations this would be it but this just means I have to play more lower quality games over all which leaves me with a negative experience.
We're about to trial a form of manual moderation in high MMR in NA to tackle some of those issues, if it goes well it would ideally be extensible worldwide. We want to weed out folks sharing accounts and griefing games.
Let's talk about wintrading/betting/etc. in particular for a second: It's a real issue and we've dug in, accounts have very recently been banned for this and that will keep happening as we confirm cases. It's not okay. At the same time, not everyone having a bad game or not communicating is win trading and we've already run into some false positives when going through reports, so I do want to highlight that there are real consequences to being overzealous here.
fact that matchmaking is optimized for things like engagement and retention and purposefully gives you manipulated lobbies to manage your rank and prevent climbing
I'll state that matchmaking optimizes for fair matches and low queue times, full stop.
Would you rather fight 1 sett sized teemo or 100 teemo sized setts?
wtf im 100% dead either way, sett sized teemo is probably faster though
That's such a bad argument lol, even in perfectly balanced matchups with 10 people on main role with identical MMR after 100 total games you would probably see stomps.
Nobody plays at the same exact skill level, some games people overperform, others they underperform; that's just natural variance. x10 that and you end up with some games being stomps.
You would definitely see stomps! Even matchmaking doesn't equal close games. There are tons of things that affect how close an individual game might be from things like early invades, snowballiness of the meta and champs chosen, how tired players are, etc.
If someone is playing like a wintrader and banned as a "false positive", they should have been banned anyways for griefing, why are they in the elo where they are and still playing so bad that they trigger the wintrade (auto) ban?
That's not what's happening, it's someone having a bad game (or multiple, that happens too), and then being reported as a wintrader.
There are blurry lines between bad games/"soft inting" etc.
We're pretty far from ideal now when you can watch people run into turrets repeatedly - that's not okay and we're working to improve that.
Hey there, thanks for answering questions! Will we have the option to disable the loadout recommendations?
Fully optional, yes, you'll still be able to edit runes like you can today.
Hello! Is there any chance to have a permanent fast paced mode where you can chose you champion? When URF or ultimate spellbook are available I'm literally spamming them.
I like playing ranked, but on some champs I'd just like a quicker / easier difficulty version of league.
think it would be pretty great but not sure of plans around anything like that, my team doesn't make modes
How do you plan on curbing the high-elo betting issue that has been running rampant on tyler1s stream for months now?
See this response.
The champion select anonimity is very bad for low ELO with the INSANE amount of bots that you have there. Honestly if you make it even harder to not play with bots, I might just abandon the game. I am already play less and if I can't know if the yuumi, taric, zilean, zoraka or janna is a real human behind the account then I might not play ever again.
I don't get why you focus so much on so many non problems. Sure there are dicks in champion select that will lookup teammates to talk trash but this is like 1% of matches in bottom ELO, on the other hand you have bots every third game.
It always feels that you target expression of anger instead of the issues of why people get so frustrated playing your game
See this response, we're absolutely taking increased action immediately on bots, it's a problem and it's not okay.
The ideal system would be that you queue up a champion and a role and load directly into game from the launcher. Is that ever going to happen?
:)
How are you all addressing rampant bots in ranked queue?
Like this
As long as recommendations are based on %winrate and playrate and not outdated...
Like PoM is a must pick in 90% of mana champs
Recommendations will be updated daily so don't worry about using outdated recs!
Edit: Sorry guys just updating, this is not actually accurate. Rune/ability upgrades will still be lagged a patch, but we're working on a solution to get them updating more regularly. For now, though, it shouldn't have much impact and will prevent anomalous recommendations. It will likely take some time for the meta to sort out after a new patch as well, and we can do some manual adjustments if necessary.
Will anonymity also be during the game? I feel like this would be a really great addition for streamers as well if theyre able to hide their games while it is playing.
No plans for that right now. Something being loosely talked about since you do see it in Wild Rift Legendary Queue and there's folks who have asked for it, so I personally think there's some merit (IMO off the cuff take is that this should be optional), but no one has started work on investigating the space thoroughly yet.
Why does Riot believe league shouldn’t have a team voice coms for ranked, when the often cited problems of such are reflected in Valorant and yet dealt with?
Our stance hasn't really changed from this. I'd challenge the idea that the problems are "dealt with" to the extent that voice chat exists consequence-free in Valorant, not too dissimilar from League's state of continuously investing in dealing with negative chat.
Not to say that things are set in stone and we'd never do it, but the landscape hasn't changed meaningfully since our last statement here.
how do you plan to get rid of smurfing?
I wouldn't call it a specific plan, but if we were to dig deep here the starting point would be to understand why folks choose to smurf, see what motivations we're able to solve for, solve for those, and then try to defend against some of the more nefarious ones.
Examples of some smurfing motivations I think we could tackle reasonably well:
Ones we will probably never want to support
Will they be based on map as well? PoM is a lot more important in ARAM than in SR, for example, and it would be nice if the recs adjusted for that as well
It will take mode into account, but I can't guarantee that it will give you a particular runeset.
/u/Auberaun does loser’s queue exist?
no
Really concerned about this being susceptible to popularized influence. Like if a streamer or big name player popularized some wild, off pick, even though its not actually what's good on x/y/z champ, and gets everyone else spamming it now newer players, or people new to the champ, will be mislead into picking it.
Check my update :)
/u/Riot_Siraris, could you please do the same for the item recommendation system? Its really bad that its always delayed by a patch as whenever a big item change happens players still build the old item often because its the comfort first recommendation. It would be way better if recommendations were data driven with the last x days of data and or y games of data.
Hope I'm making sense with what I am asking about.
So it is driven by last X days of data, it is just not updated until the next patch. I wouldn't worry too much about it because again, we update every 2 weeks, and it takes time for the meta to sort out after changes. It's possible we will change this in the future, but there are a lot of implications. Like I said, you can introduce a change that causes a deviation that might result in worse outcomes for some time until things sort themselves out.
So if Jax should build divine sunderer after Patch 12.100, it will recommend this in 12.101 after 2 weeks. After that point, it should be accurate for some time as we're not constantly changing items and champs.
Nice, manual moderation for high MMR would help alleviate some of these issues. I agree with the overzealousness comment as well.
I'll state that matchmaking optimizes for fair matches and low queue times, full stop.
I agree that this is naturally the top priority of a matchmaking algorithm (to get fast and relatively even games with players of similar rank) but if you would please comment on the patent filing that demonstrated the matchmaking algorithm takes more into account than just skill level (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/1a/6a/cf/ae76598bc6da06/WO2014014840A1.pdf).
Specifically this section:
"[0032] In a preferred embodiment, the matching approaches described above can be performed in conjunction with "Rank Pick" as well. An example process 6000 is shown in Fig. 10. Players are first placed in a pool of other players that have comparable skill and experience levels (Action Block 6100). Then, from that pool of players, the players are matched based at least in part on their behavior data in database 1110 in accordance with one or more of the approaches described above (Action Block 6200)."
You don't have to mention details but perhaps you could confirm or deny that matchmaking is purely random within the aforementioned skill restrictions and not behavioral data? Appreciate your engagement regardless.
we don't matchmake using behavioral data at all
Hey i've been one of the people that has been very convinced that matchmaking is, to a degree, rigged. Part of this is due to the fact that afaik Riot has never made a statement directly denying that. Can you please state in no uncertain terms that matchmaking does NOT AT ALL take into account things like engagement, retention, match history, or player behavior, and that it focuses ONLY and without bias on finding fair matches and that each and every match is treated as its own entity without bias from previous marches?
If I hear it directly from Riot then I will gladly have faith in your statement until im shown strong evidence to the contrary.
it focuses ONLY and without bias on finding fair matches and that each and every match is treated as its own entity without bias from previous marches?
yes confirmed
if you want to be very technical about it, previous matches will change your MMR based on the result (if you win, up, if you lose, down) and thus influence future matches
This is a lie tho. I have had proof and have sent tickets to riot even talked to Dev’s on Twitter who acknowledge that match making is a problem but simply won’t put the time or resources into fixing it up front. Rather just make adjustments along the way. Which would take forever to fully fix. Dude you gotta be transparent we all know match making isn’t 50/50 that’s complete bullshit. There are several people who can pull up their match history and show you how unbalanced it is.
Nothing I said is incompatible with what you're saying though. I never said matchmaking was perfect (no system is), I said that it does its best to find you as close to a 50/50 match within a reasonable amount of time as it can. Of course there are always areas to improve.