[2023] Upcoming Surrender Changes to Normal Games

Original Post — Direct link

Starting in patch 13.2 we'll be testing a change to the surrender rules for Normals (Blind and Draft). Teams will be able to pass a surrender vote with 4/5 yes votes starting at 15 minutes. The early unanimous surrender will be removed.

Our data shows that comeback rates when a team fails a 4/5 yes early surrender (before 20 min) are low; teams have a generally good sense of what a "winnable" game is. However it's important that opponents have time to feel powerful with a lead and games aren't abandoned too soon

We'll be closely monitoring impacts this has on a variety of metrics and listening to your feedback!

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almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by Acegickmo

Our data shows that comeback rates when a team fails a 4/5 yes early surrender (before 20 min) are low; teams have a generally good sense of what a "winnable" game is.

While I don't think the real conclusion is relevant to normals, this is obviously because people dont try to win when 4/5 vote to leave at 15? Not sure why they would pretend this is real

It's definitely a combination of factors, the mental state of a team that has 4 people willing to take the loss immediately is one of them, but we can also look at measures like gold leads to see that when these votes happen the opponents do have a fairly substantial material advantage.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by ToXic_Trader

However it's important that opponents have time to feel powerful with a lead and games aren't abandoned too soon

god i hate this statement

Do you feel similarly if we flip it to "It's important you have time to feel powerful with a lead"? Being able to flex your champion's power fantasy when you're the big, fed, succeeding character is one of the highest moments you get in League and it's something we value you being able to access.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by -SNST-

Can you guys please PLEASE look into the surrender system so abstainers do not count against Yes votes? Abstaining at all shouldn't mean a 3-0 (3 yes votes, 2 abstains, 0 no votes)

My biggest gripe with the surrender system is counting abstainers as no voters by default. If people don't even bother no-voting, why should they count against yes voters?

This isn't an official take but I'd think we want to assume that any player's default intent is "I want to keep playing the game" unless they specifically indicate they don't.

I think a pain point with how it works right now is that the timer to start a surrender vote is based on when the vote ends as opposed to starts, so people "waste time" on the next vote timer by not immediately voting. That's a change I think could be good for us to make.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by GoldRobot

Our data shows that comeback rates when a team fails a 4/5 yes early surrender (before 20 min) are low; teams have a generally good sense of what a "winnable" game is.

Or that could be because people give up cause they have option to FF? So just remove vote before 20m.

When the vote before 20 minutes was first introduced, it didn't actually change overall surrender rates almost at all, it just took many of surrender votes that passed at 20 minutes and let them occur earlier.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by Odious_Decible

You know what would be pretty valuable contextual information you could share?

Knowing how often a ff vote comes up out of the total number of games.

Knowing how that number compares with previous seasons.

Knowing how gap-made matches and your failed agency experiments cause stomps and ff votes.

Spoiler Alert: It's higher than previous seasons. A lot higher.

You've had to turn the game upside-down on everything from dodges, player lobby information and now ff votes to band-aid over the game you ruined, and your answer is to just go next. Its laughable.

Offhand I can only see back to season 7 and if a game ended via surrender or no surrender, general trend looks like seasons 7-9 were pretty flat, overall surrender rates had a pretty noticeable spike with season 10, that recovered slowly through seasons 11 and 12. Directly comparing seasons 7 and 12, surrender rates are only slightly higher.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by ubernat

OK but fast forward to now. How many ranked matches have early surrender? Why is early surrender allowed in ranked?

Can only see the past two years right now, it's about 2 - 2.5%, and that hasn't really changed over that time.

almost 2 years ago - /u/Auberaun - Direct link

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Could you possibly share more surrender rates, this is pretty interesting data

Not sure what would be interesting and I don't wanna get too deep into numbers, but the fun thing I always see in any surrender data is that most regions behave similarly enough, except for Korea which surrenders way more frequently than the rest of the world. Perhaps notably this only shows up in surrenders after 20 minutes, their FF rate pre-20 is close to everyone else's.

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