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We had 2 good consecutive years of the community to choose a champ for VGU, first one being Udyr while second year being Skarner. https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/community/choose-a-champion-update/

Riot has shared some updates on Skarner, but he seems to take oddly more time than Udyr, though they have adressed why that is so I won't get into that as it is also not what this post is really about.

My question is: Why have we not had a "choose-a-champ" this year like the two previous ones? You might say that it's because Skarner isn't finished yet, and that's why it is delayed. But even so, Udyr was not finished by the time we got to pick Skarner, so that didn't seem to be an issue back then.

Will we have another "choose-a-champ" for VGU, or is that a thing of the past to forget about?

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9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Hey guys! Want to provide some context here! Reworks are extremely costly and taxing on the team due to the amount of affinity that players built over the years with the champions, sheer amount of art assets and how tangled narratively champions are to each other. This takes effort and time to get right. Research and development sometimes cannot be tied to a specific timeline, unless we are willing take a hit on quality.

The polls last year was quite painful for the development team and players alike. By sending out the polls on a deadline time, we signed up a team of devs to work while player expectations are building up with time. When Udyr wasn't even completed. Players are left wondering what is taking so long while pressure to release is building within the team. Tbh, though we try to keep a clear head and do what is right for Skarner, it is hard to not be affected. Because we very much want to delight everyone and get him in front of everyone!

At this time with Skarner still in mid development, we are not thinking about a poll yet. Creating another poll now will start the same negative loop. This doesn't mean its going away completely, just right now is not the right time.

As for state of updates, we are iterating and trying some new things in hopes of being able to do more updates to modernize league. Not sure if the things we are trying is possible yet. Stay tuned!

There are some VGUs/VUs that we are already thinking about after Jax and Skarner. I might go deeper into that in the next roadmap update. In any case, we can def show more of Skarner next time :)

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by SCsprinter13

Riots end goal will be a new champ that has an ultimate that can only be used once, but it wins the game immediately at like 30 minutes

Waiting on Pingu

ngl... this was a pitch for early asol CGU. Not 30 min but at 55 min, he just wins the game with a cataclysm to the nexus. Surprisingly, not alot of games last that long :D Though it fit the theme of our start dragon very well though.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Hey Lexi could share more about when you’d like to drop the next roadmap, would it be like after Briar or some time for season start

Writing it now Q.Q don't know the release just yet. Need to find random things to hid in the roadmap like I did last time..though I'm not even sure anyone picked up on it hahahahaha.
Note* after I find the time to noodle on it. It will still need to go through editing and localization. So it will be a bit of time.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by CptDecaf

It's so obvious to anyone who understands how these companies work that there are probably about 33 Jira tickets for Skarner's redesign and every single one of them is marked at the lowest priority below things like, "border on store purchase icon is 1 pixel too large on medium screens."

The work on Skarner isn't unfinished because it's hard. It's not done because they are barely working on it.

Actually, we have a dedicated pod for Skarner! They work sprint to sprint on Skarner! In general, Champion team is decoupled from PIE(Skins team) and other teams. We solely focus on new champions, reworks, midscopes etc.
We do chip in to fix champion related bugs, prepping for new modes and new seasons as well on the side!

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by GrumpyShisa

Why don't you do open voting for skins then? I think it would be cool with the community. A Thematic and a Legendary skin vote, while you guys can't add more ASU/reworks/VGU.

Hihi! We work very separate from the Skins team! I'm not the best person to talk to about skins. I can speak to champions, reworks, midscopes etc :)

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by AobaSona

I know this isn't your fault, but "there's not enough time if we're doing it right" doesn't feel like enough when, a few years ago, Riot was able to do like 4 VGUs a year, while also releasing 4-5 champions.

Instead of accepting this situation as "this is just how it is", I think Riot should be looking at how to make that pace possible again, or at least half of it. Cause we didn't just go from 4 to 2 per year, we went to 1 or ZERO.

While the poll might have been a bit of a mistake, let's remember that in the first or second VGU poll we had TWO WINNERS and Riot managed to get both out without significant delays.

I know you've also said that it's not as easy as "just hire more people", but with the news that some of the champions team got put into gamemodes, that does seem necessary too. I personally don't mind getting less new champions for more gamemodes, but the way that it hurts VGUs (which are already on a bad situation) makes me sad :/

If we were getting many ASUs I wouldn't mind it as much, cause the gameplay part isn't the main thing for me, but the pacing for those is also super slow. The number of outdated stuff in the game has always hurt for those of us who care a lot about the art/lore/state of champions, but in recent years, I think seeing so many champions getting updated for Legends of Runeterra, Wild Rift and concept art/design guides (whatever those are called) has made the issue painfully clear to everyone.

We are def re-evaluating the levers we can change to make more possible atm!
I can't promise anything yet but hopefully time will show our sincerity for maintain the quality of the cast of league champions :)

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Disloyaltee

I know you guys are doing your best, but you have to look at things from our perspective.

All you are saying is "It's hard to make it work" and "It's not as easy as people think" but you give zero reasoning for why it is harder. From our - the consumers - perspective, you released 5 entirely new champions while working on a single rework. Many people (including me) are dissatisfied with the pace, but not because we hate Riot, because to us it seems absolutely unreasonable for this to take longer than 5 entire champions.

Also, going back 10 years, you used to release 20 champs a year, of course not as high quality as nowadays, but that doesn't help the case.

I'd greatly appreciate if you could tell us more about WHY it isn't possible to do quicker, maybe even a behind the scenes YouTube video comparing the development process of reworks vs new champions, might be interesting.

It’s not a completely fair assessment to say that we released 5 champions since working on a rework. Let me explain this. New champions takes almost a year to make. Udyr was completed last year, and we started on Skarner around a year ago after Udyr released. Large reworks generally takes more than a new champion (make the champion + all of the skins). Any of the champions on the roadmap have been started prior to Skarner with the exception of the cute creature marksman. Naafiri was actually started by Reav3 around when I first joined the team that was almost 2 years ago.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Disloyaltee

I know you guys are doing your best, but you have to look at things from our perspective.

All you are saying is "It's hard to make it work" and "It's not as easy as people think" but you give zero reasoning for why it is harder. From our - the consumers - perspective, you released 5 entirely new champions while working on a single rework. Many people (including me) are dissatisfied with the pace, but not because we hate Riot, because to us it seems absolutely unreasonable for this to take longer than 5 entire champions.

Also, going back 10 years, you used to release 20 champs a year, of course not as high quality as nowadays, but that doesn't help the case.

I'd greatly appreciate if you could tell us more about WHY it isn't possible to do quicker, maybe even a behind the scenes YouTube video comparing the development process of reworks vs new champions, might be interesting.

I realized I didn’t touch on the why in the first reply. Process for making a champion is much more iterative rather than known space. If we use a regular skins (non legendary +) as a comparison, a skin is a know space once you concept. There are no new technology, no big problems to solve and no need to make something, play with it, see if it works, try it against a few more champs and try again. Thus, their development can be very much more waterfall. Aka: do one thing after another because it’s defined. Making a champion or rework is less defined. It sometimes is about trying a bunch of things by throwing them at the wall and see what sticks the best. This means implementing, reimplementing, trying and retrying until we get it right. We don’t have a blueprint of what good looks like, we define as we go. This can get faster as people get more experience because there might be things they tried before that they can quickly filter through.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Macaulyn

With all due respect, specially because I know that these decisions aren't exactly in your hand... I call bullshit. We used to get more stuff than this, I cannot possibly believe that there were years in which we got multiple VGUs and champion releases and nowadays the former is literally not happening this year and the latter has been drastically reduced in number.

We made Asol CGU, Jax VU and multiple midscopes this year. There have been some reprioritizing to help with new modes and preseason from the champs team. We also helped trained up a bunch of folks to fully staff up Modes and SR team in the future :) Have some cool stuff we are also super excited to share with everyone at a later date too! Our work generally stretch over months and sometimes a whole year. So it does take time to see the fruits of our labor. But just like you, I personally can’t wait to see more.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Disloyaltee

Thanks for the answer, that makes it more understandable.

So then is it fair to say that redesigning skins is taking longer than the development of the rework itself? And are new skins just prioritized over the redesign of Skarner's already existing skins?

No unless it’s an ultimate ( eyeing that SG Udyr). Skins is easier to throw people at them to make. Several can be in parallel. Base champ def take the biggest bulk of time. Udyr was a slight outlier because we made it hard on ourselves by making so many forms while not that every skins is equal to 4 skins… it was still quite a bit of added load.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Disloyaltee

Then my last question would be: What is the most/least time it took to come up with a champions kit?

From my time on champs, I think Briar was the least because of several things that design will go into on the devblog for Briar. Also August is quite senior in craft soooo expected for him to work fast

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Disloyaltee

Is there a champ that has been in development ever since you joined?

Strictly speaking, yes. But it’s also because we cancel, pause and bring things back all the time.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by bz6

Hey /u/neolexical

I heard a couple of times that August will take a break or leave the champs team after Briar. That being said, I wanted to ask you a question, do you think the current champions team is the “weakest” it’s ever been? I feel with all this help the team has been doing (with Modes and shit), the team has lost many many important members. It’s evident that losing designers like that affects the team, I mean CertainlyT was a huge loss. Are new champions still gathering sizeable audiences when it comes to depth and breadth? I also do feel champions are more miss than hit these days, which sucks.

I don’t think so! August is still around. We are probably the only team that had the most staffed disciplines. Thus it makes sense for us to be the ones that pitch in to help the other teams to start up again. We are taking some highly ambitious projects though Naafiri with her dogs was a lot of tech work. Some future ones are also super ambitious. Will go into it in the next roadmap.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by bingbongzingzongz

btw Lexi thanks alot for your replies both here and twitter, sucks that you became lead producer of champs in troublesome times

I want to ask if older/recent VGUs are kind of considered as risky projects and that's why the team moved resources from them and into ASUs meaning they don't always have positive outcomes, yes they always have the benefit of modernizing the roster but it is kind of apparent that they won't always increase the playrate of the champion compared to ASUs:

Udyr has same playrate he had before his VGU 1 year ago, Mundo has almost same playrate as before his VGU

. (I don't mean to criticize the awesome peeps who worked on them, just an observation and I believe you were still in LoR back then)

ASUs on the other hand are always a success, Ahri's playrate increased by 50% after her ASU earlier this year and she retained that playerbase

So my question is Did you guys shift priorities away from VGUs due to that? Small increase in a champion's playrate at the cost of so much resources wasn't worth the effort?

Also this applies to "newer" champions, Renata for example has been bottom 5 pickrate champ for months despite a positive winrate

Playrate is often tied to winrate I know but there are many champions old and new who retained high playrate even with negative winrates (Lee, Kai'sa, wind bros, etc.)

TLDR: Do you consider new champions /VGUs who failed to retain the playrate to be not successful projects? Is it the reason why VGUs and new champs resources were diverted to other projects (ASUs and modes)?

ASUs are done by the Skins team so we generally have nothing to do with those projects aside from supporting them on the QA, design, game clarity side.
Personally, I think there are still good reasons to maintain the cast of league roster with updates to have them brought up to modern standards. Playrates are not necessarily the highest priority we have. Sometimes depth, players who mains and deeply care about a champion, is also important. If we keep pursuing playrate, we will end up making a lot of similar champions. We haven’t diverted any resources to other projects besides helping out on modes. Udyr was just an extra large project in a turbulent time. It will take time to catch backup.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by Zarathielis

Is there a champion concept you or the team is really excited about but you can't quite make it right and have to pause it?

Yes! There was a project that involve heavy AI that we just don’t have the tech to do yet :)

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by FruitfulRogue

Hi mentioning midscopes, can we get an update on them at all?

We haven't been given any info on if there are any new ones in production or if they've been paused for the time being.

I think midscopes have been/are some of the best things the team have done in the last few years, and as far as track record go I'd say about 90% of them have landed really well.

Itd just be nice to get some info on them, since we haven't heard anything since Rells landed (crashed?).

We tend to pick midscopes up when design team has the free cycles. Between helping out on modes and other projects, I don’t think there were alot of free cycles lately. I think we were exploring 2 pretty recently but they may or may not work out. We tend to do them pretty opportunistically. Try something and if it doesn’t work we will just not ship it.

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by FriendlyGhostLady

Can u tell us how hard the creature marksman will be? Will he be hard or easier? 2) will u make a new AP toplaner in the future?

Stay tuned for the next roadmap!

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by bz6

Hello /u/neolexical

August just said on his stream that most likely, Briar might be his last champion. Like this is so unfortunate. The champ team has already lost CertainlyT, and if you guys lose August, honestly I think the champ team is pretty much done.

I already sense that a lot of new champ releases have not been a success, I could be wrong, but I do have think that innovation has extremely dipped. You've been very communicative and transparent so far and I would really love to know your thoughts. Under /u/Reav3 the champ team felt prestigious and "serious-like". Now, I feel the team is pretty drained creatively, and just struggling to find inspiration.

Champions are SUPER important for the longevity of League as they perpetually increase the pursuit of Mastery and inject freshness into the game.

Briar is probably the last champion he will own fully for awhile! He is not leaving the gameplay team, but there are other areas that also need his expertise. Other champions around this time are also oversight by August on the design craft. This is just how you grow talent. They go from doing individual contributor work to owning the oversight on projects! That's how people get promoted and be able to have more impact.
There was a period where we were onboarding lots of folks. But now, we actually have a pretty fully stacked team at the moment and can't wait to showcase some of their work.
If you are a fan of August's work, just remember he is just a desk away and does contribute in other ways :)

9 months ago - /u/NeoLexical - Direct link

Originally posted by bz6

Thank you for your reply /u/NeoLexical

Not sure what to make of your answer. He's going to help other areas of SR League? Or is he being poached like the other important members of the Champs team to help on Modes? zzzz :p

I just feel SR League gets treated unfairly internally at Riot now, feels like its "old news". I just feel the Champs team in specific is so delicate, and I could be wrong, but its super difficult to replace people within the team when turnover happens.

Overall, and as I said earlier, I feel the quality of champs (to me) has dipped. Is there anyway you can share that one play rate chart that Yasuo dominated for years? How are the depth and breadth stats of the newer releases? Are they matching, exceeding, or failing expectations?

Not too sure what you mean by quality.
In terms of B&D, we don't solely use it to benchmark success or some champions will probably not exist.
However, for the champions I can speak to, Milio and Naafiri, both have exceeded expectations! Asol was also one of the more popular reworks that we have done to date.