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I recently saw a post about how TF is a perfectly designed champ who should never be touched, and couldn't agree more. There's always going to be a spectrum of champs who are common in "meta" decks and those who aren't, and that's healthy for any competitive game. Certain decks like Deep or Azirelia should probably never be too powerful, because they'd just feel awful to play against if they won 60% of the time with such a solitaire-like game plan. They're still fun and can be powerful in certain metas, but I don't think they should be heralded as ideal *competitive* design. I love Sion's support cards, but when he was very prevalent in the meta too many games seemed to be decided by whether or not he happened to be drawn. Kai'sa's kind of the worst of both worlds. Many complaints about the game becoming too fast, rng-dependent, etc. can be resolved by creating a meta where certain champs in their current forms are viable without constantly buffing them to keep up with powercreep.

I understand how new expansions work. One or two of the newer champs should ALWAYS be very strong, guaranteed to be in a top tier deck, and possibly need later nerfs. Kai'sa is an especially outrageous case because of how uninteractive and swingy she is. I'm sure Riot has heard every possible complaint about this, but it should be noted that it's a recurring problem.

The least interactive and easiest to play champions are often the strongest, which makes losing to them all the more frustrating. Poppy, Azirelia, Kai'sa, Bard, etc. I'm not saying that these champions are braindead or inherently badly designed, but it's all the more frustrating when you're losing to a straightforward deck that doesn't even need to adjust much to what you're doing. I will disclose that I'm biased against Azirelia (like a good chunk of the community) and hate to see it buffed despite its very bad track record. I think that many champs have golden designs, and I don't want to see the game tilt in a way where they keep needing to be buffed and changed to keep up.

Everyone loves Swain. He's been good, he's been bad, and he's never been in an oppressively overpowered deck. Swain decks require skill to pilot but don't drag games out forever. He has flexibility with a TON of different champions, fits the theme of his region with a unique spin, and he levels consistently while his level up conditions influence your deckbuilding. Bandle Swain was very fun and fair to play against; I'd love to see it come back ins ome form.

Jarvan and Shen are the pinnacle of what sets LoR apart from other card games: gradual value trading through outplaying and responding to your opponent while still having flashy finishers. A lot can be learned from the fact that players like J4/Shen even when they're pretty strong, but if Fiora creeps above tier 2 most of the player base hates it. They have soft counters and soft counter other decks, but their matchups are usually very even. Swinging with a leveled Jarvan on turn 6 makes you feel like a gigachad but isn't an immediate game ender that you build your entire deck around like Kai'sa. Leveled Shen often IS a game ender, but you really have to work for it.

To the credit of recent balance changes, I think that Viktor and Aphelios are in very healthy spots right now. Winding Light on its own may be an issue, but both of these champions otherwise feel interactive and fair. Viktor does the "evolution" thing in a much healthier way while keeping the maniacal snowball wincon, and Aphelios can fit into an incredible number of decks.

Jayce has been very strong but he's very versatile, interactive, and requires thinking turns ahead more than most champs. I like his decks both with Heimer and Lux; nobody can complain that they've ruined any recent metas despite both being powerful. Like most of these champions, he comes with a clear wincon (double acceleration gate) but this is NOT what every Jayce game or deck revolves around, and he has so many different game plans depending on the opponent or what you draw. This extends to his level 1 commonly be used as a taunt unit.

I actually really like Annie; if you were to worry about the balance of anything in her decks it'd be Tybaulk or disintegrate. She's strong on play, works with lots of champions and deck types, and can be easily dealt with by challenger units (but comes with tools to protect her by killing them). Like TF, she provides value even if she doesn't level up, but can still be viably leveled if ignored. I also think Illaoi decks are very fun and flexible, and she's an interesting case where her support package is stronger than her by herself. I think she represents the healthiest "go tall" deck we can have in this game. Please do not ever give her easy access to spellshield or everyone will hate her

Ziggs and Taliyah (and Viego) are great. I won't comment on Malphite since he's never been in a tier one deck and having your entire board consistently stunned might be horrendous. I worry that hourglass and Rite of Negation are absurdly powerful and carry them. I would love to see a great deal of powerful support for landmark decks to coincide with a significant nerf of hourglass. I do hope to see some better landmark removal to interact with Ziggs/Taliyah, but they're still pretty manageable otherwise. Like other decks, they have a variety of win conditions. You can get the pure Ziggs burn, the overwhelm Taliyah swing, the multiple-stun turn, a surprise Arsenal, or just consistently out trade or out tempo your opponent. You have to think ahead and react to your opponent's game plan. Taliyah also works with multiple other champs, and Ziggs can have a wonky role in aggressive Bandle decks.

Infinite combos aside, I like Viego and Akshan. I know we're supposed to avoid "prescriptions," but I would like to reiterate that I would love an hourglass nerf to coincide with buffs to archetypes that depended on the card. Viego/Kindred could be such a cool deck conceptually, and Kindred is extremely interactive. After nerfing some of the more ridiculous Shurima cards like Ruin Runner and gifts for Renekton, Sivir/Akshan feels like a fair deck with counterplay that requires a lot of skill to pilot perfectly. I think another reason people dislike Kai'sa is that she takes an existing Sivir/Akshan shurima/demacia midrange archetype that already existed and just makes it unfair. Demacia splash midrange and keyword soup are both already saturated archetypes; we just had Fated dominate the meta for a while.

Trundle is very solid and interactable. He's flexible, and I'd say he and Sej are the most well-designed Freljord champs. I think FTR and ramp are a little worrying if they become too strong, but I like what freljord control feels like. Blighted Ravine is just a busted card though. Most people love Aurelion Sol thematically, and I think he can be a very fun "win the game if you survive to turn ten" wincon, while feeling more interactive than how potentially oppressive a very strong Karma deck can feel. Dragons was a great archetype in general.

MF's pretty close to perfect. She's difficult but viable to level, while working in aggro and more midrangey gameplans. She's strong from the second she's played, but is completely countered by simply being removed. She still generally requires a deck to be built around her. I think Scouts is very well-designed even if Quinn feels like a follower, and a good chunk of players (myself included) find it boring. There are a million ways to disrupt Scouts, and a million ways that a Scouts player can react. Why do MF and Galio have such awful animations?

Thresh is great but just needs the right meta. He's very flexible, you have to work for his level up, and the enemy can disrupt him. He's still a decent unit on his own even without leveling, and it's easy to build an SI deck around him. He has potential in much slower control decks if they get the right support. Senna also feels cool but hampered by a lack of good support and being locked into darkness decks. I personally love darkness, but know that it's polarizing.

Almost all of the champs that I've listed usually belong in midrange decks. Control and aggro desperately need some more specialized support. Jhin has somewhat provided this, and Jayce/Heimer has kept control barely alive. I think that we have more than enough quality midrange champs in the game, and the game should be balanced around them. Each new expansion is free to add some new (and potentially very strong) aggro or control champs that feel new, but the balance should always deviate towards this existing median. I think that good old discard aggro remains the pinnacle of good aggro design in this game, and I'd love to see it remain viable outside of Winding Light.

LoR is extremely unique in not having card rotations, and I think that we can really benefit from it. I'm sure that others can make very compelling cases for other perfectly balanced champions, or question some of mine. Generally though, most players know which decks and champs *feel fair.* I don't want to see patches overcorrecting based on complaints one way or the other.

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almost 2 years ago - /u/Dan_Felder - Direct link

Originally posted by The_Fatman_Eats

I know we're supposed to avoid "prescriptions,"

Not really the point of the post, I know, but I keep seeing this and I want to take a moment to clarify what my understanding of Dan's words were: It's not that the dev's don't want our suggestions for fixes, it's that the more important thing they want is our symptoms. They want to know what we did or didn't like, and why. If you want to include suggested fixes in addition, that's great! Just don't forget to tell them what problem you're trying to solve and why you're trying to solve it in this manner.

Yes, absolutely. Suggestions are totally fine, feel free to suggest things if you have ideas for how to improve the game. I often ask for suggestions in various comments when a topic comes up too. It's just that the most valuable feedback, and key to understanding any suggestions included as well, is the description of the player experience.

Suggestions are like the chocolate sprinkles on top of the ice cream. The description of your player experience, what you're feeling and when, the way you think in the moment to maximize a play, what feels like a great, clever moment and what doesn't, that's the ice cream.