Hello again all!
Not breaking a huge amount of 'new' ground in here compared to the initial BH blog, but the survey is a lot more detailed and the hope is that we see discussion centre around rewards primarily as opposed to BH mechanics (as was the intent for the initial blog).
I think this is my 5th blog/blog update in about a week so go easy in the replies - will aim to answer as much as I can for a short while.
Excited to see what you think and to see how the survey responses shape up (and whether or not they're different to the first survey we ran!)
I hope anybody who sees this has a great weekend, and if you'd like to share - got any plans in-game or grass-adjacent?!
I really don’t see cheaper and more powerful pvp gear passing. Not many people are going to vote in favour of dying more frequently to someone that now has to risk less.
Reminder that it's BH-exclusive, and being cheaper means it's possible for more people to be on a little more of a level playing field. Understand where you're coming from - think the aim is to still have powerful options for BH without breaking the bank, since it's trying to be relatively noob-friendly and Edge-style focused!
If I recall, the bandos etc ornament kits were rejected because people didn't want these ornaments kits tied to a PvP minigame? Isn't this just the same?
It's why we're not re-offering anything that doesn't have heavy PvP ties. In the initial Emir's Arena pitch we were offering kits for Bandos and Armadyl armour - we're not offering those here. Instead we're focusing on things that see most use in PvP (Elder Maul, Heavy Ballista) or usually spring to mind alongside PvP (Claws, or Elder Chaos Robes as an iconic 1def item)
Theres not really much here? corrupt dragon isnt exactly appealing..the orn kits are fine and minus xp lamps..but outside of pvp armour/weps..theres almost nothing? it's a bit bare
i guess the potential buffs/imbues to items could be cool
I think the sheer volume of Ancient Warrior's items and potential weapon imbues (which is an expandable system) might not look like much when reading through a blog but in terms of potential items to chase and the ways they might alter your experience in PvP, there's actually quite a lot here with actual impact alongside just fun cosmetics.
I really like the idea for imbuing weapons! Also, the cosmetics look great imo.
We were actually a little surprised, in our initial blog with a 'smaller' rewards survey we were expecting Ancient Warrior's equipment to be peoples' favourite in the ranked choice question. In both the general respondents and people who self-reported as PvPers with prior BH experience, BH-specific weapon imbues came in at the top spot with Ancient Warrior's equipment a close second!
I think it's cool because it adds diversity but also allows us to get experimental and is able to be expanded upon through things like QoL polls or just miscellaneous updates.
Did a jmod just recognise 1 defence pures as existing? This may be a first.
I literally play 50att and 75att pures, and I'm not the only one on the team who does either!
I still doubt these will pass because of OSRS's mind set "PvP bad, vote no".
I don't think this is fair, look at the Wilderness Boss Rework as an example.
In this case you've got a PvP-specific minigame with rewards tailored to be used within the minigame, I think the attitude you're describing usually stems from a different place. I could be wrong, but am reasonably confident that isolated systems like this wouldn't draw the kind of reaction you're expecting!
I miss Ancient Warrior's Equipment.
then boy do I have news for you!
if I can start KO'ing ppl with a d long special attack, I will kiss you jagex. truly reminiscent of the glory days spending all my time in castle wars
Stuff like this is what we're aiming to do with imbues yeah, or just helping weapons lean a little more heavily into their fantasy in a way that makes them exciting to use, without being turbo-busted (hopefully...)
I still don’t think you guys understand the insane learning curve to be good at pvp. Powerful gear does not make you instantly good. Just because more people have access to “cheap stronger gear to level the playing field” dosent make them click their mouse more accurately. The sweats will dominate even harder and new players won’t feel any difference in my opinion.
We 100% do, but it might be worth a refresher on the original BH pitch - the learning curve for Edge-style PvP is far more forgiving than the NHing you'll see in LMS or deep Wildy. J1mmy's videos during BHv2 were prime content for that exact reason and something I love to refer people to - picking up Edge-style is so much less intimidating, and serves as a proper gateway into PvP for a lot of people (past-me included!)
Speaking of kits. Have you guys ever thought of making all kits storable somewhere? The UIM community would love this 💯
A little off-topic but we have spoken about it in Player Suggestions meets for sure! Nothing more concrete to say, but think it's a project that has merit - feels bad to drop a kit if you're not wanting to have to grind the full item etc.
love u sorry i’m toxic :/ i’m working on it
Proud of you, Tony!
You guys worked hard this week I can't deny! Enjoy your weekend Goblin, I'm personally going to a big Bday party!
You too, enjoy the party! Happy bday from the team to whoever's it is (unless they don't play OSRS, in which case don't say anything because it'd probably be weird)
Black (r) just dropped. Corrupt dragon brings back some memories for sure though.
I wouldn't associate these with dragon on first sight and I don't love that, might be a me problem though.
Happy Friday though Goblin if you're reading this, gl gamering this weekend. You've been putting in work in these last few threads, always nice to see the team so involved in discussions.
Even if it is a 'you' problem it's still valid, if it's a 'you' problem for enough people then maybe it's a problem!
It was just something we really wanted to share, the models already exist from a time way before the polling charter and we know people love the whole 'red, dark grey/black' colour scheme so thought it might be cool to show it off here and see how people felt!
And ty! Gamering this weekend is teaching my GIM Duo COX, but duo CoX is mega cosy so hopefully a chill one. Hope you have a fab weekend and cheers for the kind words!
Don't make ACB spec louder, give it an endless echo instead please!
add 'armadyl_crossbow_special_attack_bassboost_8d_binaural_knocking_reversed.mp4' to Old School RuneScape
I like some of the cosmetics, would love to see how the mace looks with the red/black swapped though. The other stuff seems like the main area is black with red trim, but in the mace's case it's the opposite. Also even though I don't think even with weapon enchants some of these would be good at my combat level now, but damn would I love being able to run around with a mace spec weapon and anchor smacking people.
I know another comment mentioned that cheaper armors passing, and I'm not sure it would pass either, but I'd be voting yes because I'd probably be interested in doing a bit of BH with that gear if it felt like I wasn't about to get shit on by people who massively outgear me in terms of budget or risk.
Extra suggestion: Arma Godsword spec but you jump double the height thanks.
Your second paragraph is exactly what I'd be hoping to see so I'm glad that intent has resonated with somebody at least.
Your suggestion has been noted - messing with height is spooky in OSRS, would it still work if you dropped into the floor first and then jumped up from below-ground?
How will the imbued weapons be visually differentiated from the normal version?
I don't pvp to know if that's an actual issue, i assume only a few of these weapons are commonly used, so if you see someones d long you just assume it's imbued?
At this stage we don't have concept or anything, but I'm certain we'd give some kind of light (but obvious) visual distinction. Though your second assumption also rings true I imagine - similar to playing LoL without timing summoners, play as if your opponent always has Flash and you'll never be caught off-guard etc.
The Elder Maul ornament kit just screams "That's it, I'm getting me mallet!"
I'd be lying if I said I didn't run around slapping the local population of Lumbridge with it for a while when I fired up a world to grab the screenshot...
Would they be equippable with zero stats outside of BH? I want to fashionscape with them.
I'm pretty sure Vesta's Blighted Longsword currently just provides 0 bonuses outside of the scenarios it's useable - would hope we'd do the same if you're just trying to look fresh at the GE
Minus XP lamps would be great as long as they're only intended as a QoL update to fix past mistakes, like accidentally gaining Def lvls or HP lvls.
One restriction could be to only allow XP removal from a skill you haven't gotten any mandatory quest XP from (e.g. if you complete Dragon Slayer you cannot remove Def XP anymore), or only down to the lowest possible XP in that skill after taking Quest XP into account (e.g. minimum 2k Def XP after completing Nature's Spirit).
I think the aim is primarily for people who goofed a Defence level or Prayer level or two to be able to rectify their mistake rather than abandoning a build entirely - i.e. the plan isn't 'whack your Slayer Helm on, get 99 Slayer, then back down to 1 Defence and nobody will be any the wiser'
I love the idea of PVP only imbues to buff underpowered weapons. I think that concept is actually really good in general as it promotes build diversity. I think conceptually you guys are on to something with stuff like this.
On that same note though, I don't really care for the ancient warrior stuff for that same reason. I'm not opposed to the idea entirely but I don't think it should be cheap or easy to obtain because if it is everyone will use it and that's boring as f**k.
I'm cool with minus xp lamps. As that's another thing that could have interesting potiental depending on implementation. I suppose I would have some small concerns that it could create some OP builds but maybe not i really would have to sit down and look at numbers.
Appreciate the continued effort in general to try to expand on PVP in this game. It's got alot of problems by orginal 2007 design but it's something I really care about and miss the glory days of.
- Glad you like the imbues!
- Think the aim would be not super easy to obtain but not awful and then we're looking at risk similar to Vesta's Blighted Longsword (50m GP), armour pieces could sit literally anywhere from 5-50m a pop - something for us to work out alongside players.
- Appreciate the concern, think what's likely (at least, what I think most players would likely imagine the system to be) is to have a pretty strict limit on the amount of XP removed, so you could perhaps revert one or two mistakes, but not benefit from content and then knock your Defence XP back to 0 at a later date.
Appreciate your appreciation, and your aesthetically pleasing bullet points.
Any chance we could get looting bags in the reward shop too? Right now the only means to obtain them is LMS and wildy monsters, would love if a different PVP style like BH could reward them too.
Seems pretty inoffensive tbh, but seeing the UIM tag I'm not sure the Crater would be your safest bet...
fwiw we've also spoken about other potential sources of looting bags, maybe you'll see something about them on a QoL poll blog one of these days!
Goblin just wanted to say it was refreshing to see the passion you approached this with and had legitimate answer and defenses for this content during the last post. Keep on keeping on brother I’m glad we have mods that care so much about the game.
Thanks for the kind words!
It's always a tricky one to walk the line between wanting to try and educate/inform/offer a differing perspective (that's either my own or just reiterating other players' views) and trying really hard to make sure it comes off 'you're wrong'. OSRS is an absolutely immensely detailed game both in terms of content and history - nobody is an expert on every single area and oftentimes those answers or 'defenses' are more an attempt at trying to offer broader perspectives for people to consider.
idk the job's hard but it's almost been a year and I don't think they're getting rid of me yet!
I love how the content design/approval/polling systems has been thrown out of the window so quickly especially after the big fuss they made about it.
"We dont have time to poll it" f**king lol
Fully appreciate that it's not the best look - it's also not in our interests to move with things that we're not confident in. In this specific case, we're trying to get a beta together in the very near future and we felt as though the feedback and survey data we got last time around (coupled with the fact that many of the rewards are already modelled in some regards either from old, unsurfaced content, or things that exist in the game files but aren't useable) that we'd be able to get a beta together for people to get hands-on.
Still completely understand where you're coming from, tried to reiterate that nothing on here will make its way into Old School without passing a poll post-beta, though I appreciate that's not the point you're making here.
So instead, Goblin, the team opted to more boring cosmetic rewards, rather then introduce some unique suggestions that i saw in the community, like new skull icons in game appearence, new armour (not ancient sorry, we dont need rehashed content), or risk vs reward items for wildy slayer, etc. You can come up with cooler ideas then this, sorry.
There's a balance to be struck sometimes with stuff that is objectively cool vs. what 'fits' a piece of content.
Things like new skull appearances in the wider Wilderness coming from an isolated PvP minigame presents a potential UX scare if players don't understand the skull is just a cosmetic, for example.
Or items that touch heavily on Wilderness slayer might make more sense coming from Wilderness slayer - eating into reward space from people wanting to engage in Edge-style PvP with buffs to an activity where a completely different style of PvP is prevalent (if PvP even occurs at all) when that space could be used to enhance and spice up the content at its core is another example of reasons why something that seems cool isn't always super appealing as a designer.
Fully agree that there are really cool things we could do with Wilderness rewards - just think those rewards should come from Wilderness content (plus, if we use all the cool Wilderness rewards here, we've got less to offer from actual Wilderness content).
In terms of 'rehashed' content, also fully appreciate your view. At the same time, it exists and the work is done in game and has been for years - things like this that we know are popular with the target audience for BH and also present an opportunity for us to focus more of our dev resource improving other aspects of the minigame are understandably very appealing. Even if it is a rehash, is it necessarily 'bad' if it's something players still want to see?
Appreciate you sharing your views regardless, hope I've not come off like a total ass in the above (not my intention at all, just trying to offer some additional perspective)
Anytime you deal directly with us you’re going to unfortunately deal with both our best and our worst.
I have given pking a try and genuinely enjoyed myself the constantly rebuying gear made it hard for me to stick things out. With what you’re doing here I think I’ll finally be able to give pking a real go, there are those of us who would give this a real shot if it gets implemented so keep fighting the good fight.
Love that! BHv1 was my first step into PvP too, very aware of the role that it's played for a lot of current PvP enjoyers - would genuinely be so rewarding to see people wanting to get stuck in and learn something new again!
Speaking of which, I really hope those Bandos kits are going to be added at some point. I might be in the minority but regular Bandos looks so ugly, but I thought the kit looked awesome
I think they're so sick! Would love to see them find a home that makes sense some day, hard-mode GWD when? :(