To alleviate the concerns of certain restricted accounts, these two upgrade scrolls willbe added to the Wilderness Slayer loot table. They will also remain in the Bounty Hunter rewards shop.
Let Ironmen loot emblems so they have to do BH for it, why should it come from something else?
If Ironmen want it, they should have to get it from the place that every other Upgrade Scroll comes from.It also says "willbe" instead of "will be" in the blog.
I understand that way of thinking and leaned towards it myself initially. People seemed split on this one so we had to make a call. We went with this because it's an item IMs are used to having relatively easy access to, and a consequence of the rework would have been making them a lot harder to get so this seemed the fairest option. They're still in the Wilderness, after all.
Most of the tasks are purely about arbitrarily "nerfing" that players ability. I'm not entirely sure, but it doesn't sound like fun gameplay
Maybe change tasks up with some specific buffs. Eg "you will deal 10% extra magic damage against your next bounty target". This would encourage players to deal with "nerf" tasks/engage with the content
They're challenging for sure, and we hope that the experienced PKers will find that fun. They're an extra (optional) incentive that rewards more points, so hopefully it'll be easier for a lesser experienced PKer to win a fight if they're facing an experienced one trying to complete a task. They're not for everyone, for sure.
That said, if you can think of tasks that you'd find fun to try and complete while playing the minigame, I'd love to hear them.
I know this is going to sound like a meme, but they chose to limit their accounts.
I've asked this a few times for the Q&A, but what's the point in choosing something which is harder, only for it to get easier?Of course Ironmen should have access to the content, but adding a new way to get the content solely for Ironmen defeat the purpose of playing that type of account IMO.
We're not trying to make it easier, just trying to avoid unnecessarily making it harder than it already was.
The items will also be there for other players and improve the value of doing Wilderness Slayer all round - which has been a big concern since we're removing the tier 1 emblems from that table.
When will these changes happen in the live game? I.E able to buy rune pouch from slayer masters for 1.5m
That's coming tomorrow with the update.
Have you done simulations of gp/hr of the expected loot following the changes/removal of emblems? Assuming the scroll and key prices stay constant.
Emblems were literally the only reason I did wilderness slayer, I loved getting that bonus drop. I already have herb sack and slayer helm so didn't care about the points anymore.
That's impossible given no one knows what the value of Dagonhai will be. We'd prefer to wait and see for that reason and adjust as necessary once things have settled.
I dont understand the whole point of this rework, what in the old system made you think that "this needs to be reworked"?
ironman also definitely shouldnt be allowed to play this, it will be only people buying kills just like in the old bh which shouldnt be a thing
Bounty Hunter has been losing players consistently for a long time so we wanted to introduce extra incentives and general improvements - we've fixed some things between the gameplay changes like the PJ timer, minimum requirements and locator arrow. We expect players to be buying kills far less or at least it'll be more expensive than before because of how much a kill would be worth. We're making sure IMs won't have early access to late game supplies or anything like that through this rework.
Why isn't it a possibility to just keep the old BH store around? Rename it to the Wildy Slayer store (maybe move the interface to Krystilia) and give the Archaic Emblems a different flavour, but keep that system around so that nothing changes for anyone who wants to acquire the old BH items without PvPing. Make the emblems untradeable and convert to some cash amount on death if you don't want the points to be buyable.
It's a possibility, we're just not keen on creating discontinued items (the Archaic emblems), even if they're untradeabale. All the old BH items will stay on the shop, but like other minigames, if you want access to them, you'll need to play it.
the veng kill is good, the no body / leg is good, the not using prayers / super pots is bad. My recommendation is get two kills without leaving the wilderness I'm not sure if it has been suggested yet, but if it was I second it. also no multi targets come on that should be off by default.
The one for getting two kills without leaving is already in the beta :) and we agree the Prayers one was overbearing - we think changing this to "No overheads" is more reasonable. The "No supers" one is already reduced from "no potions". It seems fairer since you can still use boosts from other potions.
To alleviate the concerns of certain restricted accounts, these two upgrade scrolls willbe added to the Wilderness Slayer loot table. They will also remain in the Bounty Hunter rewards shop.
The roll that normally provides a Slayer's enchantment scroll (used to enchant the Slayer staff) would become a roll that has a 3/6 chance to give the Slayer's enchantment, 2/6 for the Ring of Wealth and 1/6 for the Magic shortbow scroll.
proposal - any enchantment scroll drop is a new item - 'illegible scroll'
'reldo the librarian is researching lost languages. maybe he would be interested?' give him scrolls and he gives you the enchantment items that 'people gave me these to research but i have no interest. you can have on as thanks for your item.'
1 scroll for slayer enchant, 2 for ring of wealth, 3 for magic short.its got lore, its still the same items as the end reward, and its semi deterministic. still have to get the 'enchantment scroll' drop then redeem it for what you want.
or do it like abyssal sire and its a random weighted 1:1 trade with some npc.
Thanks for the suggestion. It's a lot of extra process, but I can understand wanting some control over which one you get.
I'm not suggesting they'd be discontinued, I'm suggesting that Archaic emblems (or their reflavoured equivalent, which all current Archaic emblems would turn into) stay in the game and stay obtainable through Wilderness Slayer. If it's an issue that tier 2-10 emblems are now discontinued, a date could be given for their deletion if they are not turned into points by that point.
Ah okay, I understand. That seems like an extra layer of complication - also we'd have two shops that are *very* similar but attached to two very different pieces of content. If the issue you're trying to fix is maintaining the GP p/hr of Wilderness Slayer, there are simpler solutions like adjusting the rate of Larran's keys, adjust the Larran's chest drop table, or even adding something worth exactly the same as a T1 Archaic emblem to the Wildy Slayer table.
Does that include brews? Having to use a zamorak brew is hardly very restricting especially on pures
We can exclude those too if you think that's appropriate.
the no overheads seems a bit ridiculous to me considering the majority of bh doesn't use it in the first place, but I may be biased since I only nh. I recommend some sort of overhead display above your player model that shows your kill streak. Also if the system allows it I'm not sure, but when you're already in a fight and your target comes into a certain distance of you there is a countdown maybe like 10 seconds before they can attack you to prevent rushing through target priority or pjing. It can be quite a hassle to skip mid fight also maybe 1 click skip.
Thanks for the feedback - I think the target PJ-ing is more annoying in the beta than it'd be in the live game since players will spend less time fighting their friends in the live game. But I understand your point and can ask about a timer. Why do you want an overhead display for killstreaks? I thought about this initially but wasn't sure what it added other than making someone a target.
Only thing that caught my attention is the bit at the end about EP, and it was only a few vague sentences with nothing concrete.
Still extremely low effort. With absolutely no new fun/excitement factor and extremely lacking rewards.
I'll copy paste my reply for the 3rd time. I realize it's not worth putting in extra effort to write anything more to you because you simply refuse to listen, as demonstrated over the course of 4 years
"This is what Pkers get after 4 years of constant lies
Absolutely horrendously appalling
You've basically changed some interfaces and called it an update
Honestly not surprised in the slightest"
The hotspots concept is not concrete because it's just an idea and still needs to be designed. We may go with something else if another idea arises. I'm sorry to hear you're not excited by the new system - I'd be interested to hear what you think we can add. I understand how disappointing the rewards situation is and I'm disappointed by it myself. I'm doing what I can to address it, and the team is meeting tomorrow to talk about how PvP rewards are introduced into the game. Initial reception to the design was very positive, so we continued down that path. It's had a couple of issues like the limitation on what types of tasks are possible to implement and the rewards problem. We still think that the points system and remaining tasks, as well as the general improvements will leave the minigame in a better place than it was before but I understand your reaction. I'd also agree that we've under-served PvP in the past by making promises and not delivering. That's something we're looking to change.
Will there be a PVM method of obtaining upgrades such as dragon pickaxe ornament kit and whip recolours for ironmen?
Magic shortbow imbue scrolls have alredy been addressed but I haven't seen any información regarding these items.
I'm less keen to make these available elsewhere since they don't play a role in the IM meta the same way the other items do. Anything we can keep exclusive for the minigame, we should. The alternative would be putting them somewhere else that only IMs can access, but I can already hear the uproar that would cause!
There will be other things to clean up like barbarian potions
Good catch - although since they delay you the same way that eating does, maybe that'd be a viable but fair alternative? I'd be interested to see if this gives them a use.
Slayer masters will sell you a Rune pouch for 1,500,000 GP. This is a temporary measure to allow players access to the item for the duration of the Beta.
Is this a joke?
How about you actually review your updates and make sure shit like this doesn't happen before making impulsive radical changes to the ironman meta?
That's my mistake for not specifying in the post - Ironmen won't be able to buy a pouch from the shop.
Peep the one meme response and all the ignored false ban questions.
I was on the OSRS Twitter account when replying to questions on the BH thread. That thread wasn't for discussing the ban issue - it was for feedback on BH. We had other Mods handling the ban issues and a statement made elsewhere.
Decent changes this update, however no one wants to restrict their damage from potions. Everyone seems to agree that one is just plain bad and not fun.
Another thing is that we need uniques in the BH store, not alchables or supplies. Not a single pker wants alchables or supplies from the store. Really, the best thing would be to poll uniques again and have a big thread asking for suggestions. Just poll a ton of them because SOMETHING will pass. Or just pick some internally and move forward with balancing that way without poll.
The most important thing pkers are looking for isn't money, but excitement(which can be related to monetary value). This bh rework still lacks that completely, and also doesn't address the fact that it's still impossible to get smites or get smited.
In 2019, pretty much everyone, even if they don't pk, can combo with food. They can easily shark -> pray pot -> karam and never get smited. I can't even remember the last time I did personally(its been years), and I very rarely get smites when I actively pked(which I've since given up until updates pass).
I just wanna enjoy the game again. I know I speak for a lot more people too that only play to pk. We just want to enjoy the game again. Remove food combos with pots in wild, add a smite upgrade, add an enchantment that can steal a lot of pray points. Give us back those OH SHIT situations. Please.
I think you're right about it needing the excitement factor. I also think the rewards we polled could've provided that if they pass. What I'm not convinced of is that polling more of them would have gotten some to slip through. Do you have a reason for believing they would? I'd like to add more exciting and unique rewards to BH, but it's pending internal discussion about our approach to introducing content for PvP.
How will I get a looting bag once this update drops?
They'll be available from Slayer Masters for 30,000GP until the end of the beta. After that, the BH Shop will be back and the drop rate from Wilderness NPCs will have been re-scaled.
The best thing you can do with bounty hunter is to focus it on the entire wilderness and not just edgeville. PKing goes far beyond edgeville, the bounty hunter world should be the one where PVP fights are induced all throughout the wilderness. That's why I light the hotspot idea. All your main PVP streamers aren't edgeville pkers so atleast take from that to move forward in this direction. Also add a wildy wyrm boss instead of 'Hotspots' much better Idea have it give bounty points or emblems or something and maybe a rare drop very unique. A big PVP hotspot on a world for PKERS alone would bring back PVP clanning.
Sweet, thanks a lot for the feedback!
The real problem here is that you have unique items that are crucial for ALL accounts (rune pouch, looting bag, etc) EXCLUSIVELY obtainable from a very niche activity - bounty hunter.
Bounty hunter isn't really accessible to the vast majority of the player base. It is overly unfair against HCIM, IM and UIM.
What you should have done is give everyone a way to obtain runepouches etc and have something like the Larran's key / resource / cash drops for BH.
You've got things backward. BH should offer resources/gold as a reward, maybe with some specific items that are useful for pking/cosmetic.
I'm open to adding the Rune pouch to other places, though it's already not exclusive to BH. It's in the Slayer points reward shop. If you think the price is too high, we're looking to poll reducing it.
As for the looting bag, that's also obtainable by killing Wilderness NPCs and we're going to rescale the drop rate as per feedback in the update tomorrow.
I don't mean this to be condescending, but is there a mod that actively does PvP that's working on this? There seems to be a disconnect with people who PvP. Killing another player takes the most skill out of 99% of activities in this game, has the highest risk, and the least reward.
Why does PvM get so much profit through safe alternatives where you just use up supplies?
Why can't PvP have some sort of profitable aspect when it's literally what takes most skill in this game?
Why are rewards becoming these cosmetics rather than actual incentives in forms value-added to content to my account?
PvM is so profitable because it generates items that people want. When you're PKing, you're only winning what someone else is willing to lose - so it's net zero as an activity. I don't think that's down to an anti-PvP culture or anything like that, but it is a fundamental issue. Rewards in BH are super limited because all the uniques that would have a lot of value failed the poll. I agree it's not good enough, so the team is going to discuss how we approach introducing PvP content.
Mod Gambit, Pvp is not just limited to "hunt down/kill your target while doing X/Y/Z". That is a very narrow way of looking at it imo.
Objective based Pvp can add a tremendously exciting aspect to bounty hunter, if done correctly.
Tasks like: "A mysterious emblem has spawned somewhere (random/in certain hotspot) in the wilderness. Retrieve the emblem to complete your task"
OR
"Enter the wilderness at level one and exit through the wildy lever at mage bank to complete your task"
In order to complete such tasks you will need to be carrying a certain amount of risk on you at all times (High risk, high reward).
By the virtue of carrying that risk, you will not be safe from other bounty hunters, which include your very own target.
These kinds of tasks don't necessitate confrontational- Pvp, but allow for far more diverse gameplay styles, incorporating aspects of stealth, tank testing, baiting and anti-pking
These tasks could even act as a suitable entry point for players new to Pvp.
Tank testing/out-maneuvering and generally being sneaky enough to evade death from groups of players in single and multi-combat in addition to the target following (or teleporting to) you to in order to complete a certain objective can make for extremely thrilling gameplay.
The task system can run in parallel to the target system and it could include tasks that involve defeating your target in a certain way (such as the ones offered), or other objective-based tasks like the ones outlined here.
Depending on how skilled you are, you can even complete your task AND simultaneously kill the target (or other attackers) following you to obtain both rewards. They are not mutually exclusive.
Bounty hunter needs a way to "branch out" to spice up the gameplay and allow for different play-styles.
Coupled with attractive rewards, I believe objective based-Pvp is the solution that you're seeking. It's the reason why minigames such as castle wars, Fog, Soul wars, Sc have historically been as popular as they have.
I like your way of thinking and we could definitely design a Wilderness activity that has tasks like the ones you're describing. I'm not trying to reduce PvP to hunting down a target, but that is the idea of Bounty Hunter. So it follows that the tasks for this particular minigame revolve around killing your target. I agree with you overall that good rewards and variety are needed - that's something I'd love to bring to PvP. Bounty Hunter is just the start.
Honestly all these changes seem like they're being randomly made because of the negative feedback received instead of critically looking at what was suggested and making adjustments based on that
What would critically determined changes look like in your eyes? We've chosen these ones based on the key points players have raised which are a lack of profitability, lack of reward/variation in the tasks and the surrounding issues caused to content outside of BH.
'Risked it': Kill your target with less than 30 health.
The ones that require you to use range/mage/melee on last hit are a bit unbalanced: mage has no ko attacks, and melee's ko potential with special attacks is higher than range's. Perhaps vengeance should count as completion for mage.
Kill your target without using magic.
without range.
without melee.This encourages trying different builds, but still always being able to hybrid and use powerful special attacks.
Also not sure if this has been addressed yet, but targets can very easily pj and ko you if you're fighting someone else. There should be a 3 second buffer to prevent this. "Player1 is targetting you." or something where nobody can attack you briefly. It shouldn't be that penalizing that ignoring your target or not having a target means that your fight + your new target can both ags spec you at once.
Thanks for these!
Just gonna say it as simple as I could.
I f**king hate this.
Just let me kill my target however f**k I want. WTF is this task garbage.
I bh'ed for about 1.5 year straight from 2015-2016 before getting bored and this update is horrendous and definitely will not be bringing me back. I will stick to clanman mode at Revs, more fun and more $$
You can still kill your target however you want.
What about when you end someone's kill streak you get the bonus points they would have gotten for killing you?
I like the idea of the hotspots in deeper wildy and think they could be expanded on. Something like giving different "effects" while being in that area could spice things up. Like bonus stats, or higher bonuses on certain weapon types while conversely nerfing stats/bonuses on other things. I think there should be some dangerous ones that teleblock you when you enter the zone or something.
I like both of these ideas - thanks!
Can you guys look into making a safe way of getting looting bags? It’s an item that has so much utility outside of just pvp and I think it would be better in the long term if there was like, say, a one time 500k fee that allows you to buy new looting bags for like 10k gp
You'll be able to buy them for 30k each from any Slayer Master shop for the duration of the beta.
Thank you for listening to us Jagex and continuing to spice up Bounty Hunter. I am really looking forward to release.
In the meantime, ornate granite maul handles have skyrocketed in price since people can’t get them anymore due to no emblems coming into game. Is there any way to counteract this? When you PK somebody risking a granite maul with the ornate handle you get about 400K but last time I tried to buy one on the GE they’re close to 1M and only increasing due to extremely limited supply.
I'm glad you're looking forward to it. We're aware of the maul handle situation and I'm open to ideas - we considered adding them to a shop temporarily similar to the Rune pouch and looting bag, but decided adding an infinite supply was too risky for a tradeable item.
Why not make PvP exclusively generated items? Trouver parchment was a great addition that adds value through PvP based activities. Random skull capes with zero benefit don't add value.
PvP drives the demand for PvM generated items. PvMers don't need more than one of any specific item (besides things like potions etc). PvPers have multiple sets.
It's a good solution, but the all the ones suggested recently have failed in the polls, so we're going to re-think our approach.
How come clue boxes aren't considered for this as well? They encourage bringing risk into the wild rather than simply 3 iteming
We'd like to do something similar for Clue Boxes. We're limited in how much we can do this week due to devs being away, so it wasn't included this week but could be added next.
can we up the minimum risk to even get a target? If they bots had to risk 200k+ to get a target it may make it worth while to rush the bots.
Doesn't that kill the minigame for beginner PKers?
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