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Potential different name for blip blocking scroll could be "grounding" scroll or something like that?
Potential different name for blip blocking scroll could be "grounding" scroll or something like that?
I don't mind it, feel like it has more associations with blocking electricity but maybe that's just ARPG affix brainrot for me...
Scrap the fountain of rune idea and wilderness agility idea while also moving the undead pirates to a better location (most likely a coast line in level 20-25 wilderness). The reason why this needs to be removed entirely is because this will add so much gold to the economy and will be botted to hell.
The whole point of the Undead Pirates is to serve as a hotspot in a lower Wilderness level to give alternative builds a place to reasonably engage with something in the Wilderness (and for players who might not be maxed to not guarantee fights with 126s over and over).
Appreciate your concerns on the other bits, we tried to go into express detail in the updated blog about how the content aims to combat bots and inflationary concerns - but we're still conscious that it won't alleviate those concerns for some, and that's totally okay!
" Without Amylase in the mix, it's ~23 laps or ~16 minutes of running around at the speed of sound. "
Goddammit, time to go listen to Escape from the City for the 108392112 time.
Absolute swimbimbler of a tune!
I like the agility changes but my suggestion would be instead of skeletons: - Prevent logout for 3 seconds after you complete any agility activity. So after you cross the log, swing the rope, etc. You get a 3 second cooldown before you can logout.
This would make it similar to the blocked logout after a spell is cast at the fountain of Rune. Making things more consistent.
And I think with the insane amount of alchs available at fountain of rune that 3 seconds isn't long enough. People will be able to log before the pker running up the landing can get to them. I think 5 seconds / ticks would be a lot more reasonable for the amount of reward they're going to get.
We're absolutely open to increasing the existing delay if 3s isn't enough, but a delay much smaller than that was definitely felt at Revenants so we think it's more of a 'wait and see' scenario than overcorrecting in advance - it still has to pass a poll first!
Why not just make the wildy course multiply xp based on the risk you are wearing? Make it so you can’t insta logout while in the course. Could make for a ton of intense PvP scenarios. Could be cool to see someone risk 1b gear to get the best agility xp rates! I think it would be a lot more interesting than what is proposed here.
Think I replied to a tweet (presumably yours) on this, so will paste reply for wider visibility: " We've spoken a bunch in the past about systems like these and run into problems with stuff like 'what if people use never-traded items with really high values to inflate that can't really be easily shifted'. It's a technical challenge, but not off the table for future "
You made bounty hunting boosting against the rules, right? Make playing a clan for protection while you skill against the rules so clans don't take over these hotspots like they had with Rev caves. Singles doesn't mean anything if people buying gold can pay for protection while they make 5x what they paid a clan.
Absolutely something we could explore, I think in the past we've had designers say that the 'emergent' side of interactions like those are the kind of thing devs dream about, but if they're too difficult to challenge or the end results sour (i.e. RWT that we're not fully on top of) then absolutely have faith that the team would step in and make changes to ensure the content stays healthy.
“We’re not looking to bait people into the wilderness”
You sure? It seems like the entire idea is to put more pvmers in the wild who have no interest in pvping but feel obligated to do it because of the insane money/xp. The pkers then get mad when pvmers bring scout alts/insta log/etc, but the pvmer is always going to be at a disadvantage.
Another easy no vote from me.
Totally get where you're coming from. The team's perspective is that there are alternative moneymakers outside of the Wilderness that exceed these rates (see here) that aren't going to become worse or be impacted in any significant way. Agility has better options for XP and GP, since the rates provided assume you're uninterrupted.
The question for us when designing stuff like this is, 'where so many safe alternatives exist, why would anybody take the risk?' and it's a divide that's difficult to manage when it comes to loot tables because every approach has its downsides (Alchables add GP, supplies diminish in value, uniques in the Wilderness historically frustrate players, Irons in particular).
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts regardless, and respect the 'No' vote - it's what the option's there for!
Warpguard scroll maybe?
This sounds miles cooler than 'Blipblock', but the bar was pretty low. I like it, feels very 'fantasy'!
Issue in lower levels is that the bots can instantly tele.
In higher levels you get the 126 issue
The teleporting issue's circumvented at Undead Pirates via Teleblock from Elder Chaos Druids, because you're absolutely right that it is an issue!
I really feel as though this could have been an opportunity to add melee armour that matters for pures or another item in general.
The headspace has a halo which is just a defense item, you use ranged chaps for your BIS generally over fremnik kilt, Varrock armour is dated.
Elders drop the elder pieces, pirates should’ve dropped something neat in that sense as well.
I'd love for us to take a swing at gearing and demystifying it a little. Difficult line to walk between empowering ragging vs. helping newer PvPers figure out gearing more easily, and also how we distribute that gear.
I'd really want to see us have another go at something like that from Emir's Arena, where people get to learn and reliably stock up on starter gear to try and put what they've learned into practise. In this particular case, it's difficult to rely on gear to keep profit vaguely consistent because you never know where it's going to shake out.
Glad to see a comment like this, think it goes way beyond Pures in terms of better-equipping people (in the literal sense of the word) to feel empowered to engage in a scrap or two!
if I missed this mb, but what about a guy who'll unnote stuff at the wilderness course? if your goal is to stay forever, if you bring max and fight back you'd have to resupply right causing you to leave and cancel your streak? or is that that looting is for?
Think a part of the blighted supply rollout would encompass giving you unnoted supplies if you have the inventory space so that you can stay topped up - but an unnote NPC might also work out!
Any chance of a new graceful set coming to the wildy course? Something like skull graceful or ghostly graceful? As a graceful collector I would love an excuse to go participate in the content.
SaeBae suggested similar in a recent ramble, and we've seen calls for it in the past too. We're fans of the idea, just that the point of these 'extra' updates is 'Undead Pirates is pretty chill to make, can we make other stuff in a similar vein that's likely to ship alongside them' and getting resource from the Art team while they're plugging away at Varlamore and other bits might over-scope things a little from a development perspective!
I still think the overall design of wilderness agility is bad. I get that you want to increase rewards to make it both worth going and worth pk'ing, but it should not offer both (near) top experience rates as well as sizable loot, the goals of people doing the content (both pkers and agility-doers) clash so hard its just going to make everyone upset.
Trying to tank there is a crapshoot too, since the only way out via the log lets people stack like 3 hits on you on the way out.
I wonder if a better design would just be -
Higher fee (250k+) on entry, same rules for lost on death, slightly higher xp rates that you hit instantly (~75k/h), no loot. Pkers would still be incentivized to go here because you can kill a lot of people fast for their fees, but staying there just risks your agility rates or something instead of actual loot.
I think we're really hesitant to offer rates beyond that from Wilderness content because it's not historically been popular, it feels like players find it more frustrating being killed and not risking anything (like suiciding at the Chaos Altar). The fee isn't xferred to a PKer, it's removed from the game entirely (a hard-sink, to offset some incoming GP).
Do you reckon in practise that you'd prefer being killed by newer PKers and likely not hitting that XP rate while sinking money? I don't think the team are opposed to it, but historically focusing on XP/hr for Wilderness content doesn't feel too popular even with people who like engaging with Wilderness content.
Can you expand on how loot will be collected at the course? Will there be a chest or something that you can obtain your loot from at any time? When you obtain your loot, will your laps reset?
Also, kudos for the extra into. I think the time to break even being laid out is much more impactful vs. just saying "3.2m an hour".
e: I'm also glad to see the tidbit about PvP learners. As someone skeptical of these wilderness changes, it's not because I hate PvPers, I want to PvP, I have done casual PvP in every MMO I've played, except runescape. Simply because it's nearly impossible to learn unless you inundate yourself within that area of knowledge.
Loot accumulates each lap, goes into a looting bag if you have an open one. If you've got spaces in your invent, the loot will offer you some Blighted supplies to top up so you can elongate trips if you're wanting to stick it out longer. Laps don't reset, you'd tap the pillar/loot chest after each lap.
Sounds like someone’s playing Last Epoch.
I've only played a couple of hours so far, attention split between OSRS, Helldivers, CS and LE. But you're not wrong that it's in the rotation - though POE has contributed more than anything to 'ARPG affix brainrot'.
Do you guys ever watch content creators in the office? Is it a collaborative session? Or maybe you watched saebae in your personal time?
Not uncommon for me to jump between streams while I'm writing for background noise/extra stimulation. Though a lot of long-form 'ramble' videos are things I tend to watch in the evenings so I can focus on them and their content in case there are some good nuggets buried in there - mostly just consume an arguably unhealthy amount of OSRS content!
I think we're really hesitant to offer rates beyond that from Wilderness content because it's not historically been popular, it feels like players find it more frustrating being killed and not risking anything (like suiciding at the Chaos Altar).
Are black chins unpopular now? I haven't really done the content since I've been maxed, but I remember them being fairly popular a few years ago.
Do you reckon in practise that you'd prefer being killed by newer PKers and likely not hitting that XP rate while sinking money?
So some background on me: I am a max main with a large enough bank to be considered "functionally unlimited", no intention of playing ironman, no real intention of going for 200m skills / playing for ranks. For my account, there is no reason period for my account to go to wilderness agility unless it has the best pet rate or an obscenely high (90k+, comparable to consistent 6:30 sep runs) xp rate to win a skill-of-the-week competition or similar. I would personally gladly trade gp for extra xp if I could actually realize these increased xp gains, which given the nature of wilderness content is always a crapshoot. If its just mediocre agility rates but extra loot, I have no reason to go.
I don't know how this cost-benefit analysis change for an ironman, or as a pre-92 agility main where the xp and rewards are actually meaningful.
I don't think Black Chins are super popular, nor are they too unpopular tbf, but for how good they can be they're probably less popular than you'd expect.
Totally get where you're at, but if you're at the point where your bank is 'functionally unlimited' then I'm not sure any update centered around moneymaking is necessarily targeting you, unless you're looking to have a go at PvP yourself. Which is fine I think? I get the point around pet rate for sure, but think that might be a little 50/50 on whether or not it'd be well-received.
What about a random (low chance) drop chance of an item that can let you dye a piece of graceful to any existing colour one time? That way there's some optional graceful-related reward with very little extra art required
Think it feels a little off-theme for something which might cheapen the incentive for grinding the other colours purely for the sake of fashionscape, not sure it's something the team would be likely to get on board with.
Seriously, no changes at all around the new clue spot? No proposed agility shortcut, closer teleport location, it not being near small larrans? Really? Nothing?
There actually was meant to be something in the post but I've been in and out of meetings all day while writing and totally blanked it - so that's entirely on me!
Will get it added to the post, but for the sake of speed, proposing that we instead move the Chaos Temple clue here:
So it's still 'about as risky' as before, but sits much closer to a teleport by way of the Wilderness Obelisk!
Lol no away it's a double down blog. Wilderness course got nerfed which is wild. Fountain of rune changed make eternal glory way worse to go for. We get more PvP updates than quests and quests is what make RuneScape RuneScape.
So much of the player base will never interact with PvP but it gets more updates than anything else lately.
Very conscious the the delays from Poll 80 coupled with the stuff in this blog (aiming to give the team working on Undead Pirates some on-theme bits to package into the release) and a quieter release schedule at the start of the year ahead of Varlamore dropping definitely makes things feel like 'more updates than anything else lately'.
Would temper that by saying that things like what's proposed in this post are utterly trivial to do compared to writing a quest, designing new areas, implementing all the cutscenes, designing any combat encounters for the quest, thinking up rewards, whether it ties into a wider narrative etc. and rely on a different skillset, where perhaps our foremost expert on quests (Ed) is currently heading things up for Varlamore and While Guthix Sleeps.
What about scroll of abyssal anchoring?
This is pretty strong, at the very least 'Anchoring' feels nautical enough!
Question 4: Should we approach these adjustments with Option A or Option B, as described in the blog?
Please do not forget the option C: none of the above. Or an option to Skip question. This is important. You want to know which variant the community prefer, but how about those who are against the whole idea of a tradeable Chivalry scroll? There should be an option to bypass the choice between two ways to improve it, otherwise a part of answers ought to be random - from those who oppose the idea, but still want to complete the poll.
Just to make it clear in case I'm misunderstanding, this is dependent on the outcome of Question 3 (should we adjust) which is in turn dependent on the outcome of Question 2 (should we add). If this question gets to the point of relevance, it's because players will already have voted to add the scroll and adjust the prayer. If neither of those come to pass, Chivalry won't be touched. That being said, there'll be a skip option also!
Nobody cares about risk.
This term is made up by pkers. If people liked this sort of game play more people would do it. You can already do everything agility has to offer in a PvP situation on PvP worlds. These updates are meant to bait low level players guess. Not sure how that’s better.
Easy no. This stuff will ruin the game in the long term.
Completely understand your perspective, but wanted to say that this sentence in the blog 'This number of players has increased significantly over the last ~2 years' was added because more people are doing it when we do more out there. The relative increase in the number of players engaging with Wilderness content (whether as PvMers/moneymakers or PKers) has increased at a rate higher than playercounts.
We're not looking to bait low level players, if you don't want to lose your stuff then there are loads of safe alternatives to make money or gain XP that might require some better stats or more effort etc., but they're all entirely risk free.
Cheers for sharing your feedback!
Such a hard push for this content for seemingly no reason. There is literally no need to create go generating content. There are plenty of other incentivised ways like the chaos altar utilizing XP gain.
Easy No's on vote. f**k your clans jmods.
It's not a push at all? We're polling stuff that players voted for us to explore at a rate of 88% Yes. If it fails a poll, it fails a poll and we'll look elsewhere or find other ways to fill up that team's time.
The Chaos Altar is less XP/hr than using a POH altar, but has an opportunity cost due to the quantity of bones you save that effectively make it a GP/hr method by mitigating loss - but people hate getting PKed there because there's no strong incentive to stick it out longer and gear up, leading to interactions that are 'logout as fast as possible' or 'use as many bones as you can while dying'. I don't think many people on any side of the PvP fence would argue that the Chaos Altar drives a particularly healthy engagement.
Still more than welcome to vote no, but wanted to say that literally none of the people working on this are in any clans. We have some team members scattered throughout Iron/Completionist/PvM clans, nobody on the team is in a PvP clan and the only people that I've ever multi-PvPed with is other Jmods, creators and a handful of friends - welcome to disagree with the update, but please don't mischaracterise me or anybody else on the team. Designers make content to support the roadmap, CM engage with the community to support the content, if it fails it fails and we're totally fine with it!
My problem is you concentrate on Pkers while it should be on pvp. PKers are just toxic people who want easy money killing people who for the most part don't fight back. They are the worst
Don't disagree that newer PKers will absolutely get their reps in on PvMers/clue scroll doers etc., but the overwhelming majority want to graduate to fighting with other PvPers because there's more money in it.
That being said, we've seen a lot of this kind of comment and it's partly why we included specific mentions of things like DMM and Emir's Arena coming up, but also wanted to challenge it lightly by making it clear that the number of real players engaging with this content has absolutely increased as a result of a little more attention in the area!
