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Let’s try to be at least a little bit reasonable here. There’s so much to rag jagex for but picking this is so absurd it makes everyone look bad.

Obviously he got a near instant pardon for his false ban, he had jmod watching him as he was banned

This isn’t a case of “reee streamer favoritism”, it just so happened that he went down with the exact right person viewing his stream.

How could you possibly ask for this to be applied to everyone? Think about the sheer volume of ban appeals jagex receives per hour, let alone per working day, many of which are true positives that the player is hoping get overturned anyway. Someone has to manually sort through all of them and resolve them one by one.

f*ck streamer favoritism. It sucks that in many cases streamers have way more influence and publicity, not to mention way more documentation when it comes to appeals. It also sucks that the best way to reach jmods is through twitter.

EV’s case has nothing to do with streamer favoritism. If you’re proposing that everyone should receive the same speed of appeal that someone does with a jmod watching them before and during their false positive, you need to grow up.

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about 5 years ago - /u/JagexTyran - Direct link

Originally posted by Nolivici

Agreed. That’s the double edged sword with automated systems that’s get rid of obvious bots is that real players get hit from time to time.

It's human error that acts as a double edged sword - even though we use very few of them, automated bans are actually very accurate (much more so than human) but they are fed from human learning to help improve and make them effective, otherwise they would be wildly inaccurate and flag entire swaths of innocent users, or be very niche and therefore not effective in aiding to take out mass amount of bots (contrary to popular belief, we do ban over 15,000 bots per day in OSRS - mostly made up of 'suicide bots' created to generate a small amount of wealth and trade it off as quickly as possible). Whilst the automated system does ban a number of accounts, these are from heuristics built by the team and are only made live after vigorous checks. When they do eventually get made live, they are very restrictive on what type of account they look for and are reviewed frequently. The vast majority of accounts are all checked by members of staff - hence where human error unfortunately comes in to play.

When assessing if an account is a bot or not, we do not examine if they belong to any noteworthy players in the community, members of staff or anything else of the sort - they are all assessed on the same basis, hence the ban on the account aforementioned. It just so happened I was watching a stream at the time, and therefore was made aware of a false-positive ban and could remove it in real time, rather than it being picked up in our daily quality and sampling checks - something we do to audit ourselves as a team to ensure we remain consistent and as accurate as possible. These are additional checks we do on top of verifying if a flagged account is a bot or not. I would have, and have unbanned players where the ban is incorrect as and when I see it, just players who are in the public eye are much more obvious.

I know this doesn't provide a clear answer on "why not just allow all bans to be appealable?" which has been addressed elsewhere in the past, but I hope it gives a little bit of information on how our team works when looking for and applying punishments to accounts.

about 5 years ago - /u/JagexTyran - Direct link

Originally posted by Deacon_Steel

Let me make sure I understand the process.

  • The system automatically bans.

  • A random daily sample gets checked.

  • If your account is not part of this daily sample, you are permanently banned with no appeal process.

  • The system bans very blatant (to how a system can determine) bots (mass created gold farmers etc)
  • The system flags other more bespoke/intelligent bots for manual review
  • Flagged accounts are checked by an Anti Cheating Specialist
  • Accounts are reviewed daily by Team Leads for accuracy
  • Accounts can be appealed if compromised by third-parties via this link
about 5 years ago - /u/JagexTyran - Direct link

Originally posted by Nolivici

Thanks for the insight, I didn’t know a lot of that.

Right now, I know that there’s a ton of skepticism when about the validity of the “manual review” label, (people just assume it’s bull) which leads to a lot of frustration. Is there anything you can say as to what aspects of an account lead it to be more likely to get manually tagged as a bot, even when it’s not? i. e. frequent trades, total level, xp gain, etc?

Getting tagged manually as a bot by mistake could be a number of things including incorrect labeling by a member of the team etc, unfortunately as much as I'd love to talk about botting and what flags accounts in the first place, that's something we won't do I'm afraid.