[2019] Let's try this again

Originally Posted by DroneYoinker
Recently my post was removed, so we'll try again, but I'll tone it down for the mods in the back

With these recent changes, I think it reinforces the hypothesis that Siege is trying to appeal to a more competitive than casual crowd. What with Quick Play now have AA/DD, following the ESL ruling to a DEGREE, it seems to be strengthening the belief that Siege is not too concerned about those just coming to the game to play Casually/ for fun.

Ranked is also a good point as it follows AAA/DDD and vice versa, uses the ESL rotation of maps, and now has pick and ban. I do not think it is outlandish for the Rainbow Six community to assume that Ubisoft is directing the game in a non-casual direction.

The game is certainly moving in a direction that is unfavorable, personally. On top of the mechanical issues plaguing the game, the fact that this game is moving in a direction that seems to pander to a competitive crowd is also disappointing

Hi DroneYoinker! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the recent Quick Match changes. I can understand how you could get the feel the game is moving towards a more competitive stance. The Siege team is always looking for ways to take Siege to another level and create more dynamic-feeling playlists. I've said this before, but I do understand why the more casual players are feeling ignored and upset. I would like to say that I have been making notes from discussion threads like this to really pinpoint the specific issues with the recent changes for my report to the development team, including direct quotes from players to help better explain the sentiment.

The main issue with Quick Match changes appears to be the swap to AA/DD. Some players have voiced that this type of rotation makes it easier to steamroll other teams, and ultimately kills team morale. This especially seems to be an issue when Defending teams get the same point twice in a row. Does anyone feel this is particularly worse on certain maps at all? Or just in general?
The next big pain point has been the map rotation system. We've been collecting suggestions from players on alternatives, like map pool matchmaking or map bans. These have all been mentioned to the development team for review as well. I particularly like the idea of restricting it to Newcomer, since the goal is to help new players.

On top of the mechanical issues plaguing the game,

Could you clarify a bit more about what you are specifically referencing to?

The first, prominent one, is that Siege is inherently defender sided on most maps. They don't have to breach the building from the outside, and they do not have to move around a lot typically. It also boils down to the individual skill. Through a common twist of bad luck, the enemy can be given a side they perform particularly well on, thus giving them a 2-3 round advantage that could already determine the match.

Which maps do you think are overly defender side more than others? I did like the suggestion someone gave about making the system double-check that the defenders don't get the same spot as they did previously to prevent getting that back-to-back advantage. Although. I partially feel like players should be able to adapt to the strategy once they find out they are playing the exact same as last round, but I also know that it's not that simple and is a learning process.

My irritation stems from the fact that there are 21 maps, but we only use 12 of them in Ranked. I can understand that there are potential balance issues from the other 9, but they are just taken out and forgotten. Some of those maps I enjoy, but can't play them in the mode I enjoy more. The pain point, for me, is that the majority of the community is ignored for the minority. I admit, we don't always have the brightest ideas, but to assume that pros possess some innate ability to balance this game without being wrong is ignorant.

The team takes consideration from all members of the community, not necessarily just pro players. I do agree that pro-players are not always correct with suggestions, as they are just like any other person who enjoys the game. I do understand that a lot of people in the community feel like it panders towards competitive pro players over the general community, especially since a lot of the players have a large platform. The important thing to understand is that the team doesn't look at who specifically suggested it, but the suggestion itself.
Regarding maps not in rotation, I understand as someone who really enjoys playing Plane. It is the map I know the best and enjoy playing on it. Not having that familiar option in play can be a bit daunting, especially if I have a hankering to play on it. I think part of the reason for the rotation is to have players be able to play on lesser-played maps so they can learn them better. Maps are also removed from rotation as a chance for a rework or revisit, like how Theme Park was removed all last season.

I believe the most prominent issue right now is hit registration. I understand that it is a difficult problem to take care of as it involves a multitude of variables, however, it really just does not help when you shoot an individual in the head 5-6 times but they register as shoulder shots. Just last night, there were 3 instances where teammates put neatly placed shots on the head, but they did not pay off, and the rounds were either lost or a lot closer than they needed to be.

Hit registration has always been a topic within the community and, as you mentioned, it is a difficult problem because of the different variables involved. When reporting hit registration issues, we strongly recommend players to provide a video along with their report to support. This gives us visual feedback showing the exact issue, and possible replication steps for the team. I know a lot of people were getting really irritated with me in the Support forums when I would constantly ask for screenshots or videos. It wasn't that I didn't believe in the reports, it is because this kind of issue needs that visual support to help further the investigation. I can't quite remember, but I think there is a HUD option to toggle the network icons/ping off/on? I would suggest turning that on as well if you are going to make clips so we can have a better understanding of the environment when things like that happen.

I'd say there are other things such as character model displacement as what your screen sees can be vastly different from what your enemy sees, and that is the difference between life and death. Many times I peak a corner, but my enemy sees me well before I see them.

This is mostly a combination of peeker's advantage and camera perspective changes. These kinds of reports also really need clips or screenshots so we can have a better understanding of what you experienced and try to replicate/understand why it happened that way.

I understand that these issues do concern servers and connections, as well as hardware to an extent, and I have tried to be patient with them. But they way they are stacking up is not really making it easy.

You're absolutely correct! These kinds of issues can involve issues on both ends, which is why it can be harder to replicate and fix. I do appreciate your patience while the team continues to improve these situations and for being really thorough with your explanations. I hope at least I can provide a bit more context and hopefully understand the points you are trying to make properly.

Originally Posted by kamakazimerc1
Let the dog pile commence! Not even sure what all the insults consisted of. All I know, the goal is to make the game better for all. Why spend countless millions just to upset the fan base. And again you cannot grasp how im feeling towards anything emotionally through text. I can easily type I love something and not mean it OBVIOUSLY. Suggesting you know what the majority is, well thats a big boy comment. Good day all. Casual player out!

Let's try to keep the thread on the topic regarding Quick Match changes and everyone should refrain from attacking each other.

For somebody whose only here for a good time, you really ask for a lot. If your really here as a casual play style, than play the game. Easy as that

The problem they are experiencing is they feel the changes to Quick Match remove the casual elements of the game. The main issue people seem to be encountering is the AA-DD change allows for an easier time to steamroll, which doesn't allow for a casual experience. The alternating swap between Attack and Defense had a more naturally-casual feel in my opinion, which is why a lot of players are not liking the AA-DD change.

My problems are completely with AA-DD. Its insanely unbalanced now. The last 3-4 games I have played we found ourselves defending 3 times in a row! We attacked first, then defended twice and overtime match has us defend again. That means the other team had to attack 3 times in a row!

You also have a game mode where is first to 3 wins. If one team gets a map and location that gives them and advantage you can easily end up going into the rotation change with a 2-0 advantage and a completely demoralized enemy. You see so many more players dropping out mid game and I think this is why.

It would make me really upset to be put into a 2-0 situation and can see how it can make people just shut down. I've made note of the overtime interaction in my report and will look into that as well.

Casual players are looking for some great R6 gaming without getting too intense. They want to play this same great game but a little more... well casually. And part of that casualness comes from switching every round. You dont have to get into that same mindset of playing the same thing for 7 minuted straight. You want to get into an OBJ and pop it off and then change up and attack. I enjoy the actual switch every rounds. It keeps me more on my toes and better lets me feel out the chemistry of the players.

I enjoyed it as well for that reason! I can see that people feel like it is not a casual mode anymore due to the pressure from the AA-DD rotation, and agree the alternating rotation gave a less "competitive mode" feel.

I like all the game modes as they are, But to be honest I dont see myself playing much more R6 with AA-DD. I want to. I really really do! It is by far my favorite game! But no matter how many times I try to get into it now I just cant keep a rhythm. I dontt think I have played even 2 Casual games in a row since this update.

I'm sorry to hear the change had that much of an impact on you! We are continuing to get an understanding of everyone's disappointment with the changes and are open to suggestions.

Originally Posted by Gravemind01
I doubt that would happen. If they can't even give users a darkmode on the forums then I doubt they'll revert the changes. I'd love it if they'd prove me wrong but once again, I doubt it.

This is something outside for our control. It would have to be something implemented by the forum developers, which is not part of Ubisoft. As someone who constantly works the forums, I would really appreciate a dark mode as well.

Originally Posted by Kristian_Draki
besides multiplayer games need casual players, it can´t just be full of competitive elite players how else would the game get new players if all their experience at first is defeat or feeling useless, to few would stick around, and even wolves (competitive players) need sheep (casual players).
it can just be wolves vs wolves, everyone wants a win once in a while, or breaks from competitive scene where else do all this twinks meta come from (people with 2 accounts)

For topic AA / DD just doesn't give the game the same flow and a really annoying part is if you end up as A or D 3 times in a row.
its hard to describe how wrong or how much of the fun this new AA / DD mode took away, I guess its much easier to describe the benefit that defending or attacking twice would make teamwork far easier to pick operators that benefit each other more.
But I think their comes a point where to much teamwork focus just effects the overall gameplay to much, and I doubt most casuals are interested in teamwork that encroaches upon just having fun and playing relaxed, and if teamwork is so important there's already plenty of other options in siege for it.
the best way to find the solution would probably be a 1 week new mode (Quick Switch Mode) like quick mode, same maps rules, but rotations on A / D every round, then UBI could collect reliable information to see how much their screwed up instead of depending on forums where so few people visit and the ones who do have biased opinions

I do agree that for every competitive mode, there should be a Casual mode. It can be hard for new players to learn the game, especially since Siege has quite a bit of a learning curve. People also don't always want to play in a competitive mindset, but would like to chill out and play some matches with friends.
I remember with the Road to SI event, we had a gamemode with pro-league settings. From what I remember seeing, people really enjoyed playing with pro-league rules! Although that opinion may have just came from players who are more hardcore. But a discovery mode like that could be nice for future changes. We already have it for when we make map changes, but I could see it benefiting mode changes like this.

Originally Posted by bishop_8
I'm just wondering, though.. What is it about the current round format that makes it competitive (other than the fact that it's the same format as the competitive format)? What makes swapping every round more of a casual experience? Honest question.

One player mentioned earlier:

And part of that casualness comes from switching every round. You dont have to get into that same mindset of playing the same thing for 7 minuted straight. You want to get into an OBJ and pop it off and then change up and attack. I enjoy the actual switch every rounds. It keeps me more on my toes and better lets me feel out the chemistry of the players.