Original Post — Direct link

Hello everyone,

As I’m sure most of you are aware, recent events within the Moderator team have made it necessary for us to discuss the future of the team, specifically in regards to u/TripleCharged and u/SleekVulpine as well as the position of Head Moderator of the subreddit.

Over the course of the day, all other Moderators have weighed in on the situation after hearing what both TripleCharged and SleekVulpine had to say and after discussing amongst ourselves, we have come to the following decisions:

  • u/TripleCharged is going to hand over his role as head mod for the subreddit to the next most senior Moderator, u/beatlesboy67.
  • TripleCharged is, however, going to stay on the team as a regular Moderator with no more power to make executive decisions on his own. We feel like most, if not all of the issues related to him all relate to the fact that he was the person exclusively in charge of the subreddit and not to his role as a moderator generally.
  • All of us agree that from here on, we are going to take a more democratic approach to subreddit moderation with every Moderator having an equal vote in decisions.
  • To prevent another “executive decision” from the new head moderator, beatlesboy gave a written guarantee that if it should ever be necessary, a unanimous vote of the mod team can outvote him and that the Admins can remove him if he does not comply. This is a solution that has been successfully used on other similar subreddits in the past to reduce the effective power of a 'Head Moderator'.

  • u/SleekVulpine will not be added back to the Moderator team
  • While all of us have expressed our disagreement with Triple removing her from the Moderator team without putting it to a vote or even talking to us about the issue first, this is an internal issue and should have been handled accordingly. All Moderators talked to SleekVulpine and she knew that we were not on Triple’s side in this matter so she could have let the team handle the situation
  • The post she made about the issue did not only go against TripleCharged’s decision to remove her from the team and in favor of him stepping down as head mod. It was worded in a way that targeted TripleCharged as a person rather than a Moderator. Her removal is not related to TripleCharged or her relationship with him - we looked at both mods separately and both decisions were made separately. It wasn’t a choice between the two and their relationship had no effect on our decision.
  • Furthermore, the reasons TripleCharged had for removing Sleek are not the same reasons that we as a moderator team have for not inviting her back.
  • This also has nothing to do with SleekVulpine’s decision to post, people have a right to defend themselves. That being said, trust is a requirement for being on a moderator team, and a number of past events, which do not need to be made public, have damaged the trust the mod team has with her.

After HRX ends, we are going to talk about further changes to the Subreddit and also open a Feedback Form where the community can give input on what they feel is going well or what should change. We are going to be overall more transparent about things in the future.

It is perfectly okay to criticize moderators, however it is not okay to start a personal witchhunt against against a user of the subreddit.

I hope that everyone has a nice weekend and a lot of fun watching SWC play out. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask in this thread. All of us Moderators will be checking the comments and reply to your questions wherever possible.

External link →
15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

I'll try to reply to as many people as I can before I go to sleep, but I wanna make a quick statement here.

I know how this may seem from the outside, but we did what we thought is fair based on all evidence we have. What sleek provided was her part of the story, but there are a lot of factors that went into this decision. In total, we spent about 5+ hours today talking about it without Triple or Sleek. We spent a lot of our time trying to reach a solution that is fair.

Now I'll say my personal opinions. Sleek was a good mod. BUT, so is Triple. Triple screwed up, big time, by removing Sleek. His punishment was that he no longer has an option to do so, at all. He is at the bottom of the mod list, which means he can only kick SmiteRobot if he wanted to. However, he does care about the community. He is the first one to organise community events around the sub when needed.

Sleek, on the other hand, is also a really good mod. However, what lead us to this decision was the fact on how she handled this situation. We are glad she raised the issue of her unmodding, but releasing private information about Triple was not a right thing to do.

I am willing to talk and respond to every single comment who has a questions because we truly do have good intentions. We want this subreddit to grow and feel welcoming for everyone. I really wanna be as transparent as possible so you can ask me anything about the process and you'll get a honest answer.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by VelvetNightFox

Person 1: abuses power, acts like a creep, does stuff without a word

Mods: You can stay. Not as strong but you can stay.

Person 2: exposes person one

Mods: Nah we're not taking you back

It's really more than that. Triple was demoted significantly, and is being reevaluated for his actions. However, him "acting like a creep" is not a valid point to make. Their relationship was at all times consensual so we cannot accept that as a point.

As for Sleek, we aren't "taking her back" because she exposed him. The way she went about it was wrong, and lead to him getting threats.

Personally, I really don't agree with this. While on the mod team, Sleek was having issues with being harrased, and she was given special permissions by Triple so she could avoid that harrasement. However, she is now the one to direct harrasement back to him which honestly isn't quite fair. Constructive criticism is welcome and needed, but witchhunting is wrong.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by theladyplague

Triple should have been ousted fully. He abused his power and clearly didnt care about your input or opinions- he doesnt deserve a seat on the table anymore. As for his victim(s) , they deserve more of an apology than “ sorry he did that, he be crazy lol” . Keeping him in a position of relative power is still a slap in the face to everyone he’s wronged. For shame, all of you

He did abuse his power and ignored our opinions, that's true. And we were all incredibly mad when we found out. Therefore his punishment was to no longer have that tool available to him. But its really hard to miss how much work the guy does. He is the first one to organise stuff for the community when the need arises and he really cares about it. He knows when he's in the wrong and is rude to someone, and is something that he takes criticism for and tries to improve himself on. That's why he's still in the mod team.

On the other hand, Sleek went the wrong way about this. She should've criticised Triple for what he did, and not bring up unrelated, completely consensual interactions between those two. There's extra stuff behind the scenes but I wish not to comment on them in the current time.

We really do try our best and we thought about this for soooo long. We really try to be as fair as possible.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by Savvysaur

Yikes.

Hey Savvy, I'll be happy to reply to any problems you might have with our decision. I know Triple has done you wrong in the past, however I'd encourage you to ask publically (or privately, whatever you prefer) on what your issues are with our decision so I can try to explain our viewpoint.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by Lyricsokawaii

This doesn't even seem like the bare minimum to be frank. You're going to keep someone with a track history for abuse on the moderation team while leaving the punishment in place for the victim. I understand you're saying there are other internal matters affecting this decision, but you can't just expect us to accept that with the circumstances. That doesn't invite confidence or feel transparent. It feels like just doing something on a whim to shut people up.

I understand the place you're coming from. This decision was not made lightly, and definitely not to "shut people up", as it's a very controversial one, and we knew that. We discussed this for more than 5 hours today and came to what we think is a fair solution. If you have any questions about the decision process, feel free to ask.

If you ask me, after seeing how certain parties behaved upon our decision, I feel it was the right one.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by GetNoSkopedd

In short, Triple doesn’t get punished for his actions but multiple people who have been unfairly unmodded or banned stay that way. Yikes

Triple's punishment was to lose his executive status. He now has no power to kick anyone, literally. However, he does care about the community greatly and strives to improve it as he knows how, which is why we kept him.

Sleek, while originally a victim of Triple's impulse decision to kick her, didn't act as we'd want a moderator to act. I do not wish to badmouth anyone, as I feel like everyone's trying their best at all times, but there was a plethora of better ways to handle the situation, unrelated to Triple.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by Snufflebox

Woooow. What an absolutely spineless decision.

So, not only are you gonna keep the guy who abused his power on the mod team, you are now essentially only punishing the person who was wrongfully kicked in the first place?

You do realize, that Sleek basically just exposed Triple for the absolute f**king clown he is, and you are STILL keeping him on the mod team, and are essentially going to wash your hands off of this entire situation, moving on as if nothing happened?

If you truly cared about the "witchhunting problem" you would've removed the original post immediately, and continued to solve it internally. Instead you let the post gather 2000 upvotes, where most of you say that you agree with Sleek.

Absolutely incredible. Shame on all of you.

Look snuffle, I don't know what to say to you. I know nothing I say can change your mind but we are really trying to be fair and bring an objective decision. Triple does so much behind the scenes for the community, and losing him would lose a lot of spirit. I know it's hard to believe that as he comes off as prick often, but he really cares.

The post stayed up because we didn't want to make it out for her to be censored. Do know that before posting, she consulted with some people on the mod team and it was explained to her that her post is valid, but witchunting people personally isn't okay and would likely lead to the events we are in now. She knew what the consequences of a public attack on a person would be, and decided to go with it, which is also partly why we kept up. If she was so determined, she had a right for her post to stay up.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by KnivesInAToaster

TripleCharged is, however, going to stay on the team as a regular Moderator with no more power to make executive decisions on his own.

I'm not so sure about this one.

Trust me, this decision was made without him. He gave us complete control to decide what outcome we make, and we thought this was the best way.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by TheMadolche

1) Triple was an average moderator at best. The person information revealed informs us of his behavior. He should not be a moderator. We have learned recently what happens when people who don't deserve power, have power. Let's not repeat this mistake.

2) If his decision was incorrect, it is your responsibility to correct the wrong. Reinstate the wronged person and reprimand them if necessary within the confounds of the rules. If he had not wrongly removed the person in question, would they have been removed? When they posted what they did as a non-moderator, to inform the community of wrong doing and general bad behavior, did they break any rules? If not, then you have no reason to not reinstate. UNLESS your intent was to remove this mod anyway. Which in that case would lead to another discussion.

To be frank, you guys are responding to this situation in a very strange way. Triple was and has been rude, inconsistent, and has clearly abused his power. Moreover, he abused his "power" in places out side of his "influence." He was called out, rather directly, and while it may have been harsh, the information gave clear credence to his issues as someone in power.

Simply put, you really should reinstate the wronged, removed the aggressor, and handle it from there.

1) I know you think that, but Triple really pulls a lot of stuff behind the scenes. I am willing to provide plenty of documentation of him asking for certain events and really pulling the subreddit places. Most of that goes unnoticed, but it does happen, and if you request, I'll publish short snippets of it, without compromising anyone's integrity.

2) Agreed, it is our responsibility to correct the wrong. However, her post broke multiple rules we had and she was personally warned by a mod that was in touch with her that it was not a nice post. It wasn't a mod warning but a warning from a person who wanted to help her. She proceeded to go with the post, which we respected and kept it up, but the consequence is that we cannot allow her the mod position back.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by Snufflebox

What sleek provided was her part of the story

Yes, and she actually provided proof, which is what you need to do when you make posts and accusations like that. You guys however are not providing any proof, so people are calling your bs. And since you guys condemned leaking mod talks, if you provide any proof, you are hypocrites.

We spent a lot of our time trying to reach a solution that is fair

If this is your definition on fair, then may god help this subreddit and it's users in the future.

Sleek was a good mod. BUT, so is Triple.

No. No he is not. And that has been established throughout the years. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Triple screwed up, big time, by removing Sleek. His punishment was that he no longer has an option to do so, at all.

This is essentially the equivalent of me shooting someone, and my punishment, instead of going to jail, is that my gun license is revoked.

He is at the bottom of the mod list, which means he can only kick SmiteRobot if he wanted to.

But he is still within the range of power to abuse it over the users of this subreddit.

However, what lead us to this decision was the fact on how she handled this situation.

Then why did you say that there were "number of past events, which do not need to be made public"? If you came to this decision just now, what happened to all the past events?

Sleek, on the other hand, is also a really good mod. However, what lead us to this decision was the fact on how she handled this situation. We are glad she raised the issue of her unmodding, but releasing private information about Triple was not a right thing to do.

It was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do. When you make a case against someone, you present all the evidence you have. Which is exactly what she did.

And since you guys condemned leaking mod talks, if you provide any proof, you are hypocrites.

I disagree. We were attacked by leaking our private chats and if that's the course of action people want to take I can see with other mods to release them fully, without any screenshots. There were plenty of mistakes made on both Triples and Sleek's part.

But he is still within the range of power to abuse it over the users of this subreddit.

All other mods now have the power to overrule his decisions, and if he does turn out to be a problem, he can easily be removed.

Then why did you say that there were "number of past events, which do not need to be made public"? If you came to this decision just now, what happened to all the past events?

This really isn't a gotcha. The post was what made us rething the decision, but I will say there is plenty of stuff in the background. Again, if requested, I'll see with other mods for modchat logs.

It was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do. When you make a case against someone, you present all the evidence you have. Which is exactly what she did.

I honestly don't believe it's right to leak someone's name and sexual interests and frame them as bad, when they were completely consensual at the time.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by dannywatchout

Honest question, did you guys even think about the optics of this situation? I really love the game and want it to thrive but I’ve come to terms with the fact that it never will and this subreddit plays a big part in that. The sad truth about most games nowadays is that a healthy Reddit community helps keep it afloat.

Today we find out that the head mod of the subreddit was abusing his power on multiple occasions and undermined the authority of all of the other moderators by making executive decisions without even mentioning the situation at hand to them. And what do you do? Keep him on the mod team? And then the person who outed him and brought his behavior to light isn’t brought back on and has to basically eat shit? Sure he’s not head mod anymore, but the fact that he still has a say in what goes on in this subreddit really rubs me the wrong way. And I’m not defending the way that Sleek outed him, maybe certain things were made public that shouldn’t have been. On the other hand though, if she didn’t reveal that sensitive information, he would still be head mod when he shouldn’t be. I can’t blame her.

I’m not saying that you should bring Sleek back on, but Triple shouldn’t be a mod, point blank. I don’t even browse here often and I feel like my trust has been violated.

I feel like I need to emphasize again that none of us agreed with Triple's decision to remove Sleek. Every single member of the team spoke out against his decision in mod chat and we did not only "make one quick comment and move on". The conversation about the topic lasted hours and the topic would not simply have been dropped soon after. The whole team was on Sleek's side and given some time we would have been able to come to a solution in a civil discussion.

It is very unlikely that Triple would still be head mod even if she hadn't made her post. Everyone on the team agreed that some sort of action had to be taken. The way Reddit works, that is something that can't be done "on the spot" but takes some time, because, technically speaking (by the rules of Reddit), Triple would have been well within his rights to remove all of us and run the sub alone or with a new hand-picked team. That meant that we had to discuss amongst ourselves and come to a reasonable conclusion.

The statement that he had abused his power and undermined our authority to make executive decisions alone on multiple occasions is not correct. This is the first time in my 3+ years on the subreddit mod team that Triple has done something like this and the consequence was him losing the position of top mod which he had held for 4 years. While this one mistake damaged the team's trust in his leading capabilities to a point where we did not feel comfortable with him in this position anymore, it does not outweigh the amount of care, time and effort he has put into this community over the years and does not warrant an immediate and complete removal from the team in our opinion.

As we said in the post and multiple other replies, the decision to not invite SleekVulpine back was not based on the fact that she spoke out against Triple, all of us did that, but the way in which she chose to address this issue certainly contributed.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by VelvetNightFox

Even if a creep isn't a valid power, abusing power like he did absolutely is. In a real job, people who do that get 100% fired.

His abuse of power was reprimanded, but was not that great to begin with. He should've asked us, but hasn't. That's why he now can't do it without asking.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by Lyricsokawaii

Well your judgement is skewed to shit. This was absolutely the worst way you could have handled this situation. This exact shit is the exact reason the MeToo movement exists. You have done next to nothing to actually punish the abuser while intentionally casting the victim in a poor light. This garbage makes me skin crawl. Stop enabling and supporting an abuser

I'm sorry, but I'll personally disagree. She and Triple had a toxic relationship, and she was the one being toxic in many many many occasions in modchat, just as he was. It is not fair to completely remove one side from any guilt just because they provided all evidence in their favour.

Edited because she wasn't an abuser and I was too harsh on my words. They were both toxic, but none of them were straight up abusive. I apologise as that wasn't my goal.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by FizzTrickPony

Oh noes! How dare she publicly provide proof of someone else's wrongdoing! She should have just continued handling it internally where none of you did anything about it and let the situation continue with no consequences like a good girl, right?

She should have just continued handling it internally where none of you did anything

We were all shocked and unsatisfied with the situation, and it was discussed from day to day. Furthermore, she talked with mods privately before publishing her posts, and was told that she was in the wrong to accuse Triple of his character. She decided she felt that way and was allowed to post it, but as someone who sees a lot behind the scenes, it was disgusting both ways.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by XenoVX

My university was the subject of a huge sexual harassment lawsuit by a professor that got national attention.

The university decided not to fire him because he had done so much good for the university’s fame and research profile and grant income. The students were outraged that he got off scot free for what he did just because the university valued his “hard work and success” more than the safety of their female students.

It’s the same bullshit excuse you’re giving to keep triple. Just because he’s a hard worker doesn’t mean he shouldn’t face consequences for abusing his power for reasons that were personal with sleekvulpine. He needs to go.

If you don’t want sleekvulpine back because she overstepped in bringing his abuse to light, that’s basically victim shaming. It would be like if smite told smitten and moggie to not take part in the smite community anymore for exposing dmbrandon’s abuse of power.

We are not talking about sexual harrasement. Their conversations were completely consensual, and framing them as otherwise is wrong.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by dannywatchout

Why did you and u/Draco9990 reply to me with the exact same comment? If this is a generic reply that you guys are all echoing as a response to all the comments, you’re making the problem even worse. You punished Sleek for Triple’s wrongdoing. She didn’t go about it in the prettiest way, but it had to be done or else nothing would have changed. You guys can say “Oh we would’ve did something even if she didn’t make a post” but seeing how you guys are handling this, I’m very much doubting that.

Now you guys are sending a scripted response to the community you’re supposed to represent in hopes of putting a band aid on the giant gash you just made. Have some god damn humanity and individuality. How dense can you guys be? I went from little hope to none.

I'm too tired to talk about other points, but just wanna mention that the reason why we replied the same is because I didn't understand what Nim told me in a private chat.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by KnivesInAToaster

His abuse of power was reprimanded, but was not that great to begin with.

So if it were worse, THEN he'd be punished accordingly?

What the f**k, dude?

If his abuse of power was worse, he'd be removed, yes. This was the first time ever he did anything major without asking the team first and has since recognised its severity.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by XenoVX

If firing someone from the mod team because they wouldn’t give him free nudes isn’t sexual harassment then I can only imagine what you’d call it if an employer fired their worker in real life for not giving into their demands in a “consensual conversation”.

Anyway I said my piece but you’re going to have to do way more to save face hun

If firing someone from the mod team because they wouldn’t give him free nudes

What? She was removed due to a completely unrelated issue, and she never claimed it was because she give him nudes

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by XenoVX

Well doing my best to remain civil I will say that to me the way this situation reads is that Sleek had issues with Triple paying for her explicit content in the past and was afraid he'd use them as blackmail against her, and furthermore he expresses annoyance at not getting free nudes from her. Then an unrelated situation occurs in which Sleek stands up for the autistic woman's post and standing up for Virtuous, and she is suddenly fired from the mod team with no explanation.

I don't see how Triple's personal issues with Sleek aren't related to her being fired. It really seems like Triple was mad about their personal issues and decided to fire Sleek, an obviously hard working moderator for the smallest possible thing as a consequence even if they would appear unrelated on the surface.

Anyway that's the way I and many other perceive it. I hope it clears up why the people of this sub do not agree with the mod team's decision.

Look, we all get it. We expected this kind of response, but I can do nothing but assure you the decision is fair. You don't have to believe me and I don't blame you, but there is a reason why the majority of the moderators voted for this outcome.

15 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by XenoVX

Then what is that reason?

It honestly seems like you kept him because you're all friends with him. He picked you all out to be his mods after all. Your reasoning that "he does so much work for the subreddit" isn't fair given that SleekVulpine (along with Castle) did the vast majority of the day to day moderating I've seen on this sub. She's also clearly a hard worker that does a lot for the sub.

It honestly seems like you kept him because you're all friends with him

I don't know triple and new mods are chosen by all old mods together.

I really don't know either sleek or triple at all, but I've seen the situation unfold myself, and I don't care about mob mentality or the dreaded downvotes if it means fighting for what's right.

14 days ago - /u/Draco9990 - Direct link

Originally posted by BruteThePenguin

So you obviously see your community is upset with this decision. My question is are you gonna rethink and go back to the drawing board or is this the final decision. I dont care. I'm just curious

After another 3+ hour session today, our decision is final for the time being.






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