[2021] Premium Ship Review - Yukon

Dear @LittleWhiteMouse, @Chobittsu,

Dear community,

While the investigation into this situation is still ongoing one thing is clear – we, to put it mildly, messed up. Please accept my sincerest apologies for how the NA Team – my team – mishandled the communications around this project.

We promised things that were not ours to promise in the first place, then failed to properly communicate about them with the rest of the team, both here in NA and globally. We created expectations, failed to deliver on them and then, after a change of staff responsible for this project, walked all over them nonchalantly.

We let you down and yet again betrayed what trust you put in us. I am aware how hard it will be to rebuild and regain that trust, but we will do our best to become the partners we need to be for you.

We will need more time to finish reviewing all communications relevant to this case and will issue a final statement once this is done. Please bear with us until then.

Best regards,

Ev1n

Regional Publishing Director, WoWS NA

In addition, it is important to put the above statement in the context of some of our processes. While we often reach out for feedback on many aspects to our VIP groups like CCs, Supertesters or Mod Makers, the involvement of community members into the design process of the game follows a process and requires approval. The many camouflage contests we have run in the past are examples of when this process is followed correctly. This case is an example when it was not. Chobittsu and AprilWhiteMouse should not have been approached with the purpose of designing a ship, because approval for this aspect of the development process was not given and the development team was unaware of their involvement, other than in terms of feedback and suggestions on the visual side.

In the end of all of this we – the NA team – also failed to see what was wrong and why Mouse’s and Chobittsu’s reactions were so strong. We should have talked to them more, much sooner and pushed to understand the whole context, rather than assuming their role was limited to just suggestions and their statements incorrect. This made us slow to react, prioritizing other tasks rather than getting to the bottom of the situation. Ultimately, we were callous and ignorant when we reached out to them, when we should have been attentive and understanding.

For that, again, I am deeply sorry.

I understand the feelings and comments in this thread, as well as in the hearts and minds of Chobittsu, AprilWhiteMouse and other players. I know that for many of you my words about changes from the initial statement will sound empty, but I also hope we will be able to make some those changes visible in the coming months.

They will include changes to our internal processes and those will remain invisible. However, they will also revolve around the way we interact with the NA community, where and how we do that. You will also see new faces in those interactions as we re-staff some of our positions, so that we can meet your expectations.

I hope we will be able to tell you more about this in the coming months.

Best regards,

Ev1n

My position history in WG has been: CS Agent, CS Specialist, Associate Producer WoWS EU, Producer WoWS EU, Executive Producer WoWS, Regional Publishing Director WoWS NA.

I am not Russian. In fact, i left my position as Executive Producer because my visa ran out and i did not want to stay in Russia.

@LittleWhiteMouse @Chobittsu
You should not have been involved in this way not because we don’t think you can contribute valuable input, but simply because approval for that level of involvement was not given, and most of your efforts were not effectively represented internally. The team was working on the ship normally for months, unaware of the degree of your dedication and commitment to the project.
It’s clear that the NA publishing team failed alongside Gneisenau. We are all deeply sorry for it and this is what we wanted our apologies to reflect – his for the expectations he created and mine for how my team treated you at the end of it all.
I know that “sorry” is just a word and doesn’t make it right. We would like to try though and would like to implement the permanent camouflage inspired by HMCS Sackville and the commemorative flag based on your designs. These would be unlockable for the HMCS Yukon for Community Tokens and, of course, available for you to distribute among your readers and fans.
You both have obviously provided us with more than enough input on these items and we want to honor that. However, we would welcome the opportunity to reach out to you for details, your comments and approval. Please let us know if you want us to proceed with it.
Sincerely,
Ev1n

Thanks, Chobittsu,
We're in different time zones, so I will make mine now, and you will make yours when you have a good rest - good night to you!

I feel I have to comment on all that, as I was probably the most involved in conversation with Chobittsu and AprilWhiteMouse after the incident happened.
But first of all, as my colleagues said above, I am terribly sorry that Chobi and Mouse had such bad experience in dealing with WoWS team. No matter who played what part in this incident, it's on World of Warships side, and I once again apologize for that.
Regarding the conversation, I feel his representation of our talks was not full. However, I understand that both Chobi and Mouse were under big stress from this situation, and I don't think there is any point in trying to dwell upon it further. At this moment, what's the most important is to make sure we understand each other and to find what we can do, apart from apologising. So here's how the conversation went.

During our conversation, we indeed discussed several various things we could do as a sign of our appreciation and apology. While talking about cosmetic items, I indeed proposed an expendable camo, as I thought it would be cool to have something universally applicable in the game that would be there forever (i.e. a new camo for credits). However, we quickly moved away from this idea due to various reasons.


We also discussed implementing Permanent camo for Yukon and a memorable flag - based on the designs of Chobi and Mouse.


Last but not the least we talked about something really big - a new Canadian ship.

With any new ship it should be clear that it's not something that can be done quickly. Especially while talking about IRL ship - not a blueprint or papership. It's a serious commitment that has its own implications, but, given the issue that caused all that, we were ready to discuss it as a long term plan (i.e. the content for 2022 right now is already in active production, so most likely we're talking about later releases).

Chobi and Mouse proposed Huron or Athabaskan II options due to the special meaning of these Tribal-class ships and their historical significance.


We proposed Magnificent (CV), Ojibwa and Grilse (subs) due to the fact these ships would be completely new and would better fit game content plans in 2022+


We decided that we (WoWS team) will evaluate the possibility of Huron / Athabaskan II and would get back to the guys with an answer and, if that answer would be yes, with evaluation. We anyway need to do a serious evaluation for any historical ship we consider - without it it's not possible to commit to its production.

Shortly after, Chobi and Mouse reached out to us and said they'd be actually inclined to settle on two Permanent camos (for Thunderer and Yukon) and a Canadian themed patch. We agreed to it, and obviously that's something that could be done much faster than a new ship. However in some more time they changed their mind and said they'd not be happy with this, actually. To be 100% clear, I don't blame them for changing their mind as it was most certainly a stressful week for them, and I appreciate that it's not easy to make up one's mind in these circumstances. Nevertheless, it means we haven't reached an agreement.
So, where are we at now?
As I said in our private conversation and double that for you here, the options we discussed are still on the table. We would be happy to pursue one of them when Chobi and Mouse approve that it's the direction they'd like us to go. Both options that we're left with are those that were proposed by Chobi and Mouse themselves:

Huron / Athabaskan II ship


Yukon and Thunderer camo + Canadian themed patch

Other options (the ones we proposed) are not worth it as the guys are not interested in them, and we of course respect that.

It seems now we're waiting for the final confirmation from Mouse if a Tribal-class is the direction she would be happy with. Chobi (it's my interpretation), seems to be in favor of a ship, too. If that turns out to be the case, we will do our best to evaluate these ships and implement one of them in future. Before we do the research, we can't promise it, but we will do our best to make it happen. However, if the cosmetic items will be chosen by Chobi and Mouse, it's also fine with us. We're ready to implement them and make them available via Chobi's and Mouse's givaways and feature them in Community items in the Armory.
Finally, we will keep you posted when we reach any meaningful stage in the discussion. However the discussion itself is private, as we touch upon NDA information there, including long term roadmap and plans. I asked Chobi to treat this information more carefully, because otherwise I won't be able to discuss any meaningful details further on. That said, I appreciate that his intention was to keep the community informed, and I sincerely hope that in some time we will have a solution which will allow us to start moving in the right direction. No ship or signal or patch will suddenly make the situation that happened good, but we will work hard to become a better team and to repair our relations with valuable community members whom we, unfortunately, let down.

Hope to come back to you soon with some news!

I don't think the core issue is with how Yukon plays, but instead in how LittleWhiteMouse and Chobi were invited to participate in its creation and how they were treated subsequently. There is no problem with buffing Yukon if needed, but it's a separate question of game balance, not community relations. Hence we're addressing LWM and Chobi here, and specifically what can be done to make them feel better.

TBH, I don't think the ships proposed will be proper T8, more likely T7, but we shall see when the evaluation is done.

Thank you, Chobi. I appreciate your patience.

Unfortunately I kinda agree. The incident was first allowed to happen (by initiating the co-working on ship design process without any internal approvals), then was allowed to continue (by not having the information passed on), then was not prevented (by not paying attention to the concerns that were repeatedly raised by Chobi and LWM before the review publication. We, as a team, basically had three different chances to prevent this, and we failed to do so. It was not a single honest mistake, but a series of decisions made unprofessionally and a series of warning signs ignored. That's fully on us.

P.S. My mention of NDA refers only to some points where I discussed our internal information on roadmap in private Discord chat. There is no implied bribe/threat: I directly asked the guys not to share such information, otherwise I would not be able to present them with the same level of information, that's it. That's our right to ask for this level of privacy, and it's normal for any kind of negotiations. I absolutely don't mind them sharing their impressions and thoughts on the situation and how we handle it if they do it fairly (and as you can see, they do it here just fine).

P.P.S. If that was not clear from my previous post and the posts of my colleagues for some reason: we don't blame Mouse and Chobi for anything. We screwed up. This situation is on us. The guys did nothing wrong. So please stop reading between the lines, there is nothing there.

I pitchforked myself after doing 24 QnAs and ~1000 comments for several years. It's time for old men to leave and let young men step up

Hello, Mouse.
Happy to see you here.
Right now we're doing evaluation on Huron and Athabaskan II - the ships you proposed in our previous conversation. I assume that it's something you'd me most interested in among all things we're discussed together and after talking to Chobi yesterday, I asked my colleagues to resume the work, although you did not explicitly approved this direction. I did it because I don't want to waste time and I feel I need to give you something to work with ASAP. As soon as the evaluation is done, I will get back to you and Chobi with a clear answer (yes/no, when/why), and of course this answer can be transparently shared with the community here as well. There is nothing not enthusiastic about this: if implementing one of these Tribal-class ships would be possible and would move our broken relations in the right direction, we will be enthusiastic about it for sure.

As for the olive branch, as soon as the incident became visible to us, we immediately apologized, taking full responsibility for the issue, and made contact with you and Chobi. We're currently discussing a ship - something that takes a lot of time and work of several departments over months, even it that would be a sister ship of a class represented in the game. We are concerned with making you and Chobi feel valued, otherwise that unprecedented option would not even be on the table. I understand that it's just talk for now, so let's see where it leads us in future. In any case, we're determined to do something good for you. I appreciate and understand your current feelings, and I hope our future actions will make you feel better after this incident. We also did internal investigation on how this incident was allowed to start, continue and finish. While obviously I can't share the details for various ethical and professional reasons, there will surely be internal changes in all involved areas. We take this incident very seriously and don't want you or any other CC to experience such frustration in future.

And, while I appreciate the passion you put into your reviews and World of Warships in general, I indeed hope you will get some rest. Please take good care of yourself, our ship evaluation and the plan to do something for you and Chobi won't go anywhere.

Why should she? Why are you discussing it?
Mouse has been one of the most valuable CC and we barely had any issues with her. She is extremely nice to other players, CC and WG staff, and she's very attentive to all the details and rules of CC Program. There are zero reasons currently to question her CC status and I doubt it will change.

@Chobittsu @LittleWhiteMouse, I have good news for you and for everyone else.

I've just received an answer from our historical and research team and also talked to the development right away.

We are happy to confirm we can implement one of the ships you brought up - HMCS Huron - to honor you and own our mistakes that lead to the incident.

While we will be taking all care of design and production process ourselves, we also would be happy to implement a Permanent camo for this ship based on your design/ideas, if, of course you'd be interested.

Moreover, even though our content is in works for ~2 years ahead, after some squeezing and plans changing we're ready to commit to releasing this ship in 2022.

We humbly hope that you will appreciate this commitment and it will show you that despite of the mess we created around Yukon, we want you to feel valued and repair our relations.

Please let us know what you think, and if you're fine with us going there, we will get things started in the near future.

Hi,

I explicitly said that's a commitment from us. Unless a big meteor aka "force majeure we objectively don't have influence on" falls on our office (I hope that won't happen, but if it does, I won't be here to tell you that), we will release this ship in 2022.
The only thing I'm waiting for to initiate putting it into our schedule is the approval from both Mouse and Chobi

It's a good point, as not clearly setting the expectations (or setting them and then failing to meet them) is what has resulted in this mess.

But right now the conditions are clear and they also have been presented here publicly, so the whole thing is definite to everyone: Mouse and Chobi named two ships they'd be interested in for us to choose, and we're ready to implement one of them in 2022. All development and design is 100% on our side, but should they wish, they can offer a Permanent camo concept/design - historical or more fictional - and we will also implement it for the ship as a main or alternative camo option.

Thanks, @Chobittsu

Should we proceed, we will gladly support your idea to highlight Huron development more and give some extra details and behind-the-scenes insights. I think we could send this extra information to you and @LittleWhiteMouse so you can share it with the community as you'd like.

Also, as some suggested here, we could supply you with some extra copies of Huron when it's released so you can do some giveaways as you see fit.

P.S. I still hope my English is not _that_ poor

Hey,

We've got agreement from @Chobittsu and, via him, from @LittleWhiteMouse to proceed with HMCS Huron.

As promised, we also will be working on a special alternative camo for Huron @Chobittsu will be probably cooking in a while, but he's the man to tell you the details. From what I heard from Chobi, the idea is pretty cool.

We will also start giving both of them extra details and information once the ship enters active development, but this will happen in more distant future, as the ship is officially scheduled to release in 2022.

In no way we think this step is enough to immediately fix all problems that had led to this incident, in fact, it will be a "physical" form of our sincere apology. Nevertheless we hope it's a good step, and we thank both Chobi and Mouse for accepting it and giving us this chance.

I believe in future there will be a separate thread on HMCS Huron development process, but that's for Mouse and Chobi to decide when the moment comes.

Have good weekend, everyone.

Naming a ship, not designing it, was what the guys proposed in the first place themselves and that is what we agreed to. I think it's still the right way to move forward - those who carry responsibility for the ship release (design team) will be making a call.

However, Mouse and Chobi will be able to participate in play testing, if they wish, and they will have the most direct feedback channel to the team. But the responsibility for how the ship plays will be on our side - as it should be. It's a big work, and who knows what interesting mechanics and gameplay it may receive in 2022

Yes, Gneisenau013 has left Wargaming. Other than that we are not going to discuss the internal affairs of the company nor any staffing decisions. We wish the best to Gneisenau013 and are grateful to him for his work in Wargaming.

There is nothing regarding this we need to communicate about with the World of Warships community.

You are entitled to an opinion on this, but please understand that HR decisions are not for public disclosure as a matter of general principle. We simply will not disclose such information to the public, just like we will protect other private information related to our staff, the company and the relationships between the two.

You specifically seem to downvote anything i post, but i believe you can see that on some items I am making an early effort to facilitate communication and understanding - especially on certain suggestions and ideas for design, or addressing what the community considers problems. As I've mentioned before, on some topics or specific items we will be able to go deeper and on other's we won't. This is separate from the fact that I myself have a general specialization (audience research, UX and process design - generally speaking) where I am more knowledgeable, while to speak on other stuff more in depth i need to reach out to my colleagues. In the end our commitment is to widen those communications channels over time, but they will still not contain HR sensitive information.

I believe this thread has generally exhausted its purpose and i invite everyone to visit those other threads where we can continue discussing relevant topics.

Thanks, man! At the very least, no one can level the “WG doesn’t play it’s own game” at me

Hi, Folks! We reopened this thread specifically so that Mouse and Chobi could address what started here. It seems to me that this has happened and that it's time to let a sleeping thread lie.
I'm going to re-lock it and leave it here for posterity.
Thank you to everyone who participated in a reasonable manner :)