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Maybe now my junglers wont be 4 levels behind
Maybe now my junglers wont be 4 levels behind
I'll still be 4 levels behind sorry
Firstly just to be clear, it's 500 smite then INSTANTLY 1000? Or scales to 1k?
- Smite Damage to Monsters :: 390-1000 (based on levels) >>> 500 at base, 1000 after Smite quest completion
Does Riot consider it an issue that ganking junglers can clear nearly as fast if not faster than farming junglers? Should a distinction not be made between them? Like Farming junglers can clear all 6 camps early and gankers are (basically) unable to before scuttle spawn.
It's kind of nutty that there are no draw backs to most ganking junglers when it comes to clearing and that they can straight up choose While farming junglers that can't gank as well cannot.
Previously for instance Hec had an insane clear, shouldn't he be on the level of clear of something like WW? While a champion like Kayn can full clear since his ganks are weaker and wants to farm.
To be fair, smite is not up for every camp and having smite available for combat would be an advantage for champions that don't need to use it to clear.
Smite (along with crowd control) will break the Scuttle Crab's shield before applying damage
that's pretty massive for like every jungler, no?
When within 200 range of causing the monster to leash, a warning particle will appear to show the monster’s leash range
that's really cool actually
Overall I've found these changes to be pretty helpful as a non-jungle main. Clearing up some of those more arcane clearing optimizations helps me be more useful to my team. Hopefully players on live feel similar.
EDIT: Referring to the "leash" circles specifically
Is there any concern for cosmic insight + potentially even Lucids rush being mandatory on every single jungler to get the smite upgrade substantially earlier than the enemy now that it’s even more game warping?
That's a good question and something I'd admittedly not really thought about. I'll have to double check the data to be sure but if I recall correctly cosmic insight is a decent ways away from being competitive on junglers vs the alternatives. Lucidity though might be decently powerful.
That said, doing the math, you get evolved smite 5 smites in and you're likely to use at least two smites before getting lucidity, so taking lucidity will save you ~30 total seconds on evolve smite and cosmic+lucidity will be around ~65 total seconds. I don't expect that to be enough to make a huge difference in a vast majority of games.
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My understanding is that killing scuttle quickly should cause you to "sacrifice" a spell to break the shield in most cases (whether that be CC or a smite), which is why it's not just tankier with no shield. Obviously there's exceptions but that's the general design thoughts.
As for buffing jg XP, there are fewer jungle camps with the reduced timers. Quick maffs says there's 13% fewer jungle camps (excluding buffs). Since no other XP is being increased (except if you're massively behind), this should just flatly be a decrease to XP gained from powerfarming the jungle, which is what all the current "meta" junglers do very well, especially in pro.
This. Also it's really useful for junglers without cc
Lillia pog
How will you fix the fact that the jungler will be at level 4 when the top laner and mid laner will be at level 3. Their first clear will be even faster with the 500 damage smite.
You force every lane to back off from the waves. Junglers will have a crazy amount of pressure..
That is a 100 damage difference, overall not a large one considering the total health pool of the jungle up until that point is like 5000. That said, definitely something to keep an eye on and we'll monitor what jungle level 4 timings look like. My prediction is they won't change meaningfully.
Does the Scuttle note mean you are also actively looking to clean up some spells which deal damage first, then break the Scuttle shield?
Most spells in this game follow the "debuffs -> damage" convention, but not all do, even if they easily could. I'm working on a list of how each spell orders these, already, so if you are looking for a wider set of fixes I could forward that once I finish it.
Ah yeah that's interesting. I'd be particularly interested in jungle champs that it happens with.
These are pretty huge system changes I’m guessing y’all greenlighted since MSI lock was 11.9. I’m guessing there’s gonna be significant follow up the following patch for how these land?
We definitely had some liberty to swing harder with these changes since it's post-MSI, and yeah we will be monitoring how they land and adjust accordingly. Testing has went well on them but hard to simulate how millions of players of varying skills will play, so we are optimistic but ready to adjust if needed.
These posts are going to start hitting different :( Nonetheless!
Prior to Jag's post about the upcoming exploration about the jungle changes you published a "State of the Game" QGT. And something that immediately stood out to me is the mention of increasing accessibility into the jungle "without undermining the core skill and flexibility that current junglers love."
You once said to me that the core design pillars that Morello and the team at that time introduced are pretty much still used to benchmark design decisions.
One of those pillars is Mastery. These changes in my mind go against that pillar and instead introduce too much hand holding. It is tough to balance complexity and accessbility I get it, but for League to achieve even more longevity, it has to mantain it's identity (competitive, hardcore game). It is OK if games showcase a challenge, the jungle is a rough rule but there are external factors that amplify that difficulty.
A lack of a basic tutorial, lack of in game voice communication, and lack of knowledge from laners. People don't like to play or put the time in to learn the jungle role because of the constant abuse.
I fear that changes like these can set the precedent for the future and in the end, we just become another World of Warcraft; a watered down experience.
Mastery is and always will be a design pillar, but that cannot mean that more mastery is always better, or it follows that we should always look to maximize the challenge and reward of every aspect of the game, which would come at an unacceptable cost to other design pillars, or even to the mastery pillar taken as a whole. This is especially true in a team game like League. If the output of a mastery difference in the jungle (or, sometimes, simply a few unfortunate events in a row) is too frequently deciding games, it undermines the output of a mastery difference from other players in other roles. The simplified benchmark here is something like "being better at jungling should be an incredibly high skill ceiling endeavor that preserves important skill tests jungle players value (pathing, ganking, tracking enemy junglers etc.) and it should be worth making the effort to improve and perform well," which doesn't require that the outcome of overperforming is single-handedly winning the game.
We haven't deprioritized mastery, and easing up on the lower value difficulty (like memorizing leash ranges) allows us wiggle room later on for more meaningful challenges and more interesting decisions for players.
Junglers blaming a 1 level gap for losing the smite fight despite them smiting at like 1.5khp in shambles
I'm in this comment and I don't like it.
I am terrible at smiting so I get yelled at all the time lol.
My go to is to say "pro players lose smite fights all the time what do you expect from me, a plat player" and I've gotten a surprising amount of sympathetic responses
My premade's jungler is gold.
It doesn't save him.