almost 2 years
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Coffee Stain Studios
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0s | hey everyone it's Uncle Jace today the |
---|---|
2s | community manager at coffee stain |
3s | studios in Crowder on crowd around the |
5s | campfire we have some stuff to talk |
6s | about okay we have some serious things |
8s | to talk about |
9s | bugs we have to talk about bugs okay |
11s | bugs baby yeah |
16s | as a community manager for this game I |
19s | have come across some folks online who |
21s | are understandably frustrated about the |
23s | fact that there are there are bugs in |
25s | the game and also their bugs that |
27s | they've reported literally years ago |
30s | on our QA site still has not been |
33s | resolved or even bugs that like they |
35s | haven't reported but it's just been |
36s | there it's just been there for years and |
38s | so today I would like to talk to you |
39s | about how we prioritize and plan bug |
40s | fixes as well as feature editions and |
43s | how you know this kind of thing where |
45s | like bugs go unsolved uh for years can |
48s | occur now in case you didn't know what |
49s | the uh the QA site is it's our bug |
52s | reporting and feedback website uh which |
54s | we created specifically for satisfactory |
57s | and it can be found at |
59s | questions.satisfactorygame.com and it is |
61s | the best way to let us know about any |
63s | bugs that you're running into as well as |
65s | any feedback or suggestions you have for |
66s | satisfactory as well that goes directly |
69s | to the team we have a bunch of people |
70s | who uh comb through that every single |
72s | day to make sure that they can see what |
74s | you guys are talking about and then we |
76s | use that to plan what kind of bugs we |
78s | want to solve now there is something |
79s | just before we get into this there is |
80s | something that I want to dismantle real |
82s | quick okay I just want to get this out |
84s | there now I often attach to the comments |
86s | that are made out of frustration |
87s | understandably is the idea that because |
90s | because a specific bug hasn't been fixed |
92s | or their specific bug hasn't been fixed |
94s | for like years three years we hear |
96s | sometimes |
97s | that therefore we haven't done anything |
100s | in three years |
102s | now again I want to acknowledge the |
103s | frustration that and how frustrating |
105s | this can feel because it does happen |
107s | Okay but I do want to weigh in here and |
110s | also say that like it's just not true |
112s | even though those things haven't been |
114s | fixed we've done a lot in the past three |
116s | years which is since update three we've |
118s | released 170 patches six of those are |
122s | major patches |
124s | um and that's including the 3.5 update |
126s | that that is a major patch and so you |
128s | know we've actually been really busy I |
129s | just want to I just want to put that on |
130s | the record before we move forward okay |
132s | it's not true we've been working hard so |
135s | an incredibly part of game development |
137s | in general under any circumstances at |
139s | all but especially when your game is |
141s | available to the public in An Early |
143s | Access setting is bug prioritization and |
146s | this is something that is really hard to |
148s | get right and it's maybe something you |
150s | can never really get right but it's you |
151s | know it's something that we always need |
152s | to improve upon because we believe as |
154s | developers of a game that is in Early |
156s | Access that we have a responsibility |
159s | for our game and for our community to |
162s | one keep it in a playable State for the |
164s | overwhelming majority of people and two |
166s | to finish the game's development which |
169s | is another goal that we must adhere to |
171s | in our opinion However unfortunately |
173s | perpetually maintaining our game in a |
175s | state of perfect stability is not |
178s | feasible and is actually quite |
179s | detrimental to the development of the |
181s | game and so you might be wondering like |
183s | in what ways is having a stable game |
185s | detrimental to the development of the |
187s | game well first of all it kind of |
189s | depends on what your definition of |
190s | stability is or stable is okay so there |
193s | are some people I have seen online who |
194s | say there should be no bugs in a game |
196s | right it's unacceptable for the there to |
198s | be bugs but regardless of whether you're |
200s | not in Early Access uh having a game |
202s | that is perfectly uh bug free at least |
205s | the game is complex as our one you know |
207s | in our particular case where we have |
209s | three million plus people playing on |
211s | varying Hardware with you know varying |
213s | Windows versions and Driver versions |
215s | they may or may not be up to date they |
217s | might be mods involved 100 stability on |
219s | all all machines is simply not something |
221s | that is actually viable and so we need |
223s | to find an acceptable level of stability |
225s | and so that's the first thing that can |
226s | be detrimental to development you know |
228s | chasing that that perfect stability in a |
231s | game is just it's just going to lead us |
233s | astray and it's not really something |
234s | that's attainable right so we can't do |
236s | that not only that but maintaining a |
238s | high level of stability during active |
240s | development is also incredibly |
242s | inefficient okay this is because it |
244s | would mean uh consistently undoing and |
246s | redoing work that we've done before in |
249s | order to stabilize the game when the |
250s | game's design is constantly changing and |
252s | new features are being added not only |
254s | that but adding new features risks |
255s | instability anyway as it is whether or |
258s | not we're redoing and undoing work so |
260s | this is just something that we we can't |
263s | escape either and long term this makes |
265s | no sense because it would mean that |
266s | it'll take us like I don't know twice as |
267s | long to finish the game when we could |
270s | just do it in half the amount of the |
271s | time if we were to accept some level of |
274s | growing pains right so bear in mind that |
276s | we've been working on satisfactory for |
277s | like six or seven years now and if we |
280s | were chasing all these bugs to clean |
281s | them all up at every possible step of |
284s | the way we wouldn't be nearly as far in |
287s | development as we are now financially |
289s | this is awful and then maybe even |
291s | interest wise you guys wouldn't be |
292s | getting any new stuff and it would get |
293s | very boring you know the game just might |
295s | become irrelevant you know and so the |
296s | goal of keeping the game like completely |
298s | bug free throughout Early Access and |
301s | maybe ever really is something that we |
303s | necessarily we something that we can't |
305s | necessarily look to pursue now but that |
307s | doesn't mean we can just dump a hot pile |
310s | of steaming trash on your lap and be |
312s | like hey we're Early Access deal with it |
314s | you know we can't do that either that's |
316s | not fair |
317s | um so no like a balance needs to be |
319s | found and we go to Great Lengths to find |
320s | in that balance we keep the game in a |
322s | good playable State for the overwhelming |
324s | majority of people while also pushing |
326s | the project towards its 1.0 launch and |
329s | one other thing to note is that like as |
331s | we get closer to 1.0 we will have less |
333s | and less features to add the game's |
335s | design will start to solidify we know |
337s | exactly what the game is supposed to be |
338s | we don't necessarily have any more |
340s | features to add and then overall |
341s | stability becomes a higher and higher |
343s | priority as you know there's less |
345s | features to add and less question about |
347s | the game's future and design at that |
349s | point so a higher level of stability |
350s | will be a focus moving closer towards |
353s | 1.0 and so that means that some of the |
354s | bugs haven't been fixed aren't being |
357s | fixed and we may not even be able to |
358s | commit at the moment to fix all the bugs |
360s | right now and so someone at the office |
363s | or whatever needs to decide well what |
365s | does get fixed what doesn't get fixed |
367s | and also what features do get added and |
369s | don't get at it because there are a lot |
370s | of features we would like to add to the |
372s | game but we can't add them all so what |
374s | affects the priority of a bug or feature |
375s | mostly focusing on bugs frequency and |
378s | severity so here you can see a QA post |
380s | by emus posted three years ago about the |
383s | Blade Runners being in the wrong |
385s | orientation in hypertubes and I believe |
388s | that's still an issue to this day and uh |
390s | yeah that's been that's just been there |
392s | for three years and it hasn't been fixed |
393s | yet now the reason this is not a severe |
396s | issue it doesn't break the game it is a |
398s | little janky but and we do intend on |
399s | fixing it but right now there's more |
401s | important things for us to focus on and |
403s | that's just kind of what we do so if a |
405s | bug is deemed less severe than other |
406s | bugs or features then it may just be |
408s | push lower and lower on priority and it |
411s | just takes a while before we get around |
412s | to it instead we just focus on more |
413s | severe and game breaking bugs another |
415s | thing that affects the priority of bugs |
416s | is whether or not the bug is part of a |
419s | feature that we intend to overhaul or |
420s | address later on so we've got a couple |
422s | examples and there's one here this is |
424s | posted by godspeed two years ago MK3 |
426s | miners with two outputs because when you |
429s | overclock an MK3 Miner to its maxibility |
431s | there are no belts quick enough to |
434s | Output the what the miner can extract |
437s | from a resource node right so this is |
439s | this is obviously a problem |
441s | um and so this is a post from two years |
442s | ago and this hasn't been this hasn't |
444s | been fixed yet or addressed yet but we |
446s | have talked about this before and it |
448s | will be addressed just so you know |
449s | another example is if you just search |
451s | for like the truck on the QA site uh |
454s | yeah I mean trucks and tractors getting |
457s | stuck on foundations their physics are |
459s | kind of wonky they fly out into space |
461s | you know like there are issues around |
463s | the vehicles and there are so many posts |
464s | here that I can see I'm looking at them |
466s | right now three years ago two years ago |
468s | right a year ago three years ago like |
470s | there's so many but like the vehicle |
471s | thing this will be addressed at some |
473s | point but like right now it doesn't make |
474s | sense to to run around plugging random |
477s | holes all over the game at this stage |
480s | during Early Access when the state of |
481s | the game has a decent amount of |
483s | volatility so why are we going to spend |
484s | time fixing something with the vehicles |
486s | now potentially risk introducing new |
488s | bugs in the process only to undo it all |
491s | when we intend to rework the vehicles in |
494s | the future anyway there are actually |
496s | Arguments for this though and it sort of |
498s | depends on severity I mean obviously |
499s | having better functioning vehicles in |
501s | the meantime might be good but we also |
504s | don't know if that's easy to achieve |
506s | right now |
507s | um because you know there are certain |
509s | issues that we can run into that could |
510s | have just Band-Aid fixes which are |
512s | simple especially if the issues are |
515s | really severe you know we can we can do |
517s | that even if it means redoing work later |
519s | yeah it sort of just depends on the |
520s | severity and it depends on the |
522s | difficulty of the fix the next thing we |
524s | need to consider when prioritizing bugs |
526s | is the impact on planning so with game |
529s | development time is a resource and we |
531s | are limited in what we can achieve we |
532s | can't do everything we want with the |
534s | game so every bug we fix or or feature |
536s | that we add comes at a cost and that |
538s | cost is other bugs and other features |
541s | that we could fix or add so anything we |
543s | choose to do will impact the planning of |
545s | the project and without careful |
547s | consideration for our plans the project |
550s | will spiral out of control and will |
551s | never get it done now that doesn't mean |
553s | that our plans are final and they're |
555s | just rigid and we're just going to roll |
556s | with them forever it's not as if we |
558s | don't consider the current circumstances |
559s | of what's going on we frequently change |
561s | our plans which is one reason why we |
563s | don't publicly State our plans because |
565s | they change all the time but it is |
567s | important that we have something |
569s | concrete to strive for because that |
570s | provides us Direction and without |
572s | Direction |
573s | we run into issues and so when |
575s | prioritizing bugs and features uh with |
578s | respect to planning we try and get the |
580s | best bang for our buck possible so |
582s | sometimes multiple bugs or suggestions |
584s | on the QA side for example can be |
586s | addressed with a single carefully |
588s | designed feature and those kind of |
590s | features or additions that's a gold mine |
593s | where we can get a lot of wins just for |
595s | one one feature and that's what we need |
598s | to be really really mindful of and what |
599s | we need to strive to look for so that we |
601s | can get as much done in as little time |
603s | as possible another Factor when it comes |
605s | to bug priority is is the fix safe quick |
608s | and easy so if a feature or a solution |
610s | to a bug is safe quick or easy then |
613s | there's a very good chance that we might |
615s | as well just knock it out and move on |
616s | however we need to be super super |
618s | careful about this because oftentimes |
620s | something can look safe and look easy |
622s | only for us to find that it's an entire |
624s | can of worms that once we open it we're |
627s | in on a downward spiral and we can't |
629s | find our way back out like you know it |
630s | just gets out of control really quickly |
632s | so we have to be really careful about |
633s | that |
634s | um fellow programmers or game developers |
636s | might have you know experienced this |
638s | phenomenon before where it's like the |
640s | easy bug to fix takes like a month to |
642s | fix but the hard bug to fix takes like |
644s | one day this is a common thing that |
646s | happens and our ability to you know |
648s | accurately assess what's easy and what's |
651s | not with uh you know an incredibly High |
653s | degree of certainty is just something |
655s | that's really hard to do uh we can't do |
657s | it to a certain degree but it's just |
659s | kind of hard and it bites a lot of game |
660s | developers in the butt the next thing is |
662s | do we know how to fix it so if we don't |
664s | know how to actually solve a particular |
666s | bug right away it might be hard for us |
668s | to prioritize it when if we have no real |
670s | direction or leads on how we want to |
672s | solve it so one example can be a common |
675s | issue that people have run into that's |
677s | been in the game for many many years is |
679s | a new character appearing when loading |
681s | the save this is one that was posted a |
683s | year ago but this issue has been there |
684s | for three years almost since the the |
687s | games Inception or from when the game |
689s | was launched even and this is a tough |
691s | thing because we don't really know how |
692s | to solve it yet we know that that there |
694s | are solutions for it this is not an |
695s | impossible solve we think that there's a |
697s | lot of features that need to be built |
698s | around just to fix this one issue and so |
701s | we've actually been sort of like |
702s | postponing it a bit because we're not |
703s | really exactly sure how we want to |
705s | tackle it just yet but actually maybe |
707s | this isn't the best idea of of like uh |
709s | of something that we know or don't know |
711s | how to fix probably a better example |
713s | would be the object limit in the game so |
715s | right now there's only so many objects |
717s | that can be placed in the game until the |
719s | game like crashes and this is not |
720s | something we know how to fix it's a it's |
722s | a limitation of the engine we don't know |
725s | what we can do about it at all and so |
727s | we're not doing anything about it so |
728s | this is just a bug that stays there and |
730s | that's been there since day one and yeah |
732s | however this object limit for the most |
733s | part we do deem this as a not super |
735s | severe issue I mean it is severe the |
738s | game crashes but it isn't frequent and |
740s | it affects very very very few people |
742s | it's not cool that it's there and we do |
744s | do things to alleviate it by minimizing |
746s | the amount of objects that um are placed |
748s | in the world because certain like if you |
750s | build like one Constructor that's made |
751s | up of multiple objects so we've |
752s | optimized things so that when you build |
754s | one Constructor it contains less objects |
756s | that kind of thing so we can do things |
759s | to alleviate it but we can't get rid of |
760s | this we just don't know how but luckily |
762s | those kind of bugs aren't super |
764s | prominent sometimes I hate to say it but |
766s | sometimes a bug just isn't fixed because |
768s | it slips through the cracks so this |
770s | could absolutely happen this is a |
771s | failing I guess on our part for the most |
773s | part but there's a lot of reports too so |
776s | we have to give ourselves a little bit |
777s | of slack but you know sometimes bugs |
779s | just slip through the cracks and we just |
780s | kind of forget about it or I don't know |
782s | whatever in which case you know keep up |
785s | voting bugs will see it again or post |
787s | post them again or come to uh live |
790s | streams bug snootenai DM us about it you |
792s | know you can just do things to get it |
795s | back on our Consciousness again if you |
796s | wish that's perfectly fine uh but yeah |
799s | this can happen as well and sometimes |
800s | that's just why bugs aren't fixed for |
802s | years |
803s | yeah another reason the bug might not |
806s | get fixed is because the reported bug is |
807s | not even our fault so this is a pretty |
809s | common thing where some people will say |
811s | hey there's like my game is crashing and |
813s | when we check the the crash logs or the |
816s | stack Trace we can see it's got to do |
817s | with rendering stuff and we say have you |
819s | updated your drivers they say no they |
821s | update it and then it's and then it's |
822s | working again so this is something that |
824s | happens fairly often where yeah people |
826s | could have out-of-day drivers uh |
828s | incompatible Hardware like that their |
830s | Hardware doesn't meet the minimum |
831s | specifications for the game uh |
833s | conflicting software is another thing |
835s | that we've come across when it comes to |
836s | multiplayer issues there are obviously |
838s | certain things that we have done in the |
839s | past to help fix multiplayer issues but |
841s | there are also some things that are like |
843s | local network related where it could be |
845s | settings on your router or even like |
846s | your local area network of like your |
849s | dorm or apartment building that you're |
850s | on or your ISP even like some of those |
852s | things they're just simply out of our |
853s | control so we can give like General |
856s | troubleshooting tips but we these are |
858s | not things that we can fix so we can't |
859s | fix those things in the game and so |
861s | sometimes the suggested feature does not |
862s | fit without game idea and so this is |
864s | another thing where things suggestions |
866s | can be years old but they're not being |
868s | added and that's because maybe it |
870s | doesn't fit with what we think |
872s | the game should have in it and so I've |
874s | made an entire video about this already |
875s | so I'll put it up in the cards up here |
877s | and in the description below and you can |
879s | check that video out where I talk more |
880s | about features that are not going to |
882s | come to satisfactory so this brings us |
884s | to the next point which is could we do |
885s | anything better to address this feeling |
887s | of |
888s | if we're not if people feel as though |
890s | we're not listening or they're not |
892s | getting heard or that you know their |
893s | bugs aren't getting fixed is there |
894s | anything that we can do about that maybe |
897s | so the first thing that immediately |
898s | comes to mind which I don't think will |
900s | work is increasing resources so for |
902s | example could we just like hire more |
904s | programmers to fix more bugs more people |
906s | we can do more right isn't it just that |
908s | simple well first of all I just want to |
909s | say the team is doing a phenomenal job |
911s | taking care of all the bugs that they |
912s | can and whilst also adding features I |
914s | think is great and also reducing crunch |
916s | this is something that we uh Focus |
919s | pretty hard on we don't want our our |
921s | team to Crunch we don't think that's a |
922s | healthy thing for developers to be to be |
924s | doing within the industry so we don't |
926s | want to go down that road right uh so |
928s | we're just doing what we can do of |
930s | course we can hire more people and then |
931s | we'll have more help more hands on decks |
933s | and so theoretically we should be able |
935s | to solve more issues right however that |
937s | doesn't necessarily work out in practice |
939s | hiring more people does not necessarily |
941s | solve this problem because as the team |
943s | size grows each additional person that |
945s | we add comes with a bunch of overhead |
947s | there's a popular saying amongst |
949s | programmers what one programmer can do |
951s | in one month two programmers can do in |
953s | two months or three months who knows and |
957s | the point of that saying is that the |
958s | overhead of managing and coordinating |
960s | additional Engineers or other developers |
962s | of other disciplines can often outweigh |
964s | the benefit of bringing them on on board |
967s | in the first place and so we can't just |
969s | add people and the problem goes away |
970s | that's not how it works so I don't |
973s | maybe we can add more people and maybe |
976s | it would be effective but this is not |
978s | really a solution that we can rush to |
979s | what about better bug prioritization and |
981s | planning so it could be that we improve |
983s | uh the way that we prioritize bug fixing |
986s | which bugs we fix and new features we |
988s | could maybe do better in that area so |
990s | that we can get more done somehow but we |
992s | think we're doing a pretty good job at |
993s | managing things right now there is some |
995s | give and take but we're trying to find |
997s | the balance like I was talking about |
998s | earlier however if you don't think that |
1000s | we're doing a good enough job or doing |
1002s | things right or things things could be |
1003s | better you can always let us know you |
1005s | can always give us that feedback you can |
1006s | do it on the QA side send us an email |
1008s | DMS let us know on stream up to you okay |
1012s | um that feedback is always valuable the |
1014s | reality is though is that we can't make |
1016s | everyone happy and that's okay that just |
1019s | is what it is that's how that's how the |
1020s | world works okay but we can do our best |
1023s | and we can take your feedback into |
1025s | consideration so that we can make more |
1027s | informed decisions moving forward okay |
1029s | so let us know let us know if you think |
1030s | things should be better perhaps we could |
1032s | improve communication now this is one |
1035s | area that I think can be improved quite |
1036s | a bit I think we do a pretty good job at |
1038s | communicating things in general like I |
1040s | think we do pretty well here on the |
1042s | YouTube channel and on streams and |
1043s | things like that but I do think that we |
1046s | are dropping the ball a little bit when |
1047s | it comes to the QA site I think there's |
1049s | a lack of feedback there we literally |
1050s | have a feature on the QA site where we |
1052s | can Mark certain posts as resolved fixed |
1055s | internally acknowledged or whatever like |
1057s | known issue right however there are a |
1060s | lot of posts that have actually been |
1061s | addressed or acknowledged or have |
1064s | planned fixes uh on the QA site but they |
1066s | haven't even been marked as such yet |
1068s | they're still left as open and the fact |
1070s | that we have some posts that are two |
1072s | years old with 1200 upvotes |
1075s | and marked as open not even listed as |
1078s | known issue or something like that I |
1080s | think is a little unacceptable and I |
1082s | think we can do better there it's |
1083s | entirely possible that if we were to |
1085s | communicate better on the QA site that |
1087s | people might feel more heard there |
1089s | they'll feel less disenfranchised and |
1091s | more willing to post feedback and I |
1093s | think that this will go a really long |
1094s | way when people can see that we've seen |
1096s | their posts because I think radio |
1097s | silence can be torture especially if the |
1100s | past experience is that your bugs |
1102s | haven't gotten fixed right so I'm gonna |
1104s | bring this up to the team I don't I have |
1106s | no promises I can't say what we're gonna |
1107s | do or anything like that but I'll bring |
1109s | it up with the team and um hopefully we |
1111s | can make some changes to address this so |
1113s | we can get some better communication or |
1115s | feedback on the QA side so that people |
1116s | know when when we uh when we see things |
1119s | it's not super it's not super easy to do |
1122s | because everyone's kind of busy with |
1123s | other things but I'll bring it up we'll |
1125s | talk about it I'm hopeful that we can |
1127s | find a solution but we'll see how it |
1128s | goes anyway that's all I kind of wanted |
1130s | to cover today it's just a lot of |
1131s | talking I hope you guys don't mind it I |
1133s | think I think this topic is interesting |
1135s | I find it actually interesting I don't |
1137s | know if I have a really boring nerdy |
1138s | person for that but I I think this is a |
1140s | really fascinating topic |
1142s | um and I hope that this at least gives |
1143s | like some insight to why some bugs don't |
1146s | get fixed or how things work or or at |
1149s | least our perspective as game developers |
1150s | on things even if like maybe you don't |
1152s | agree with it right so if you found the |
1153s | video interesting please give it a like |
1155s | and I would love to hear your |
1156s | perspective on things and your thoughts |
1158s | on everything that I shared today uh in |
1159s | the comments below because a lot of this |
1161s | is kind of like our opinion as |
1162s | developers on this right and that |
1165s | doesn't necessarily mean we're right I |
1167s | would love to hear your opinion on |
1168s | things as well and that's feedback that |
1170s | we can take into consideration maybe |
1171s | there are things that we're overlooking |
1173s | and we would love you guys to help us |
1175s | you know spot those things if we can |
1176s | okay so that's pretty much it for the |
1178s | video thank you very much for watching I |
1179s | hope you enjoyed it have a lovely |
1180s | weekend and I'll see you next time take |
1182s | care everybody bye-bye all right |
1184s | [Music] |