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From Twitter:

  • Bonjour dresseurs! Hallo Bändiger! French and German tamers, today we need your help

  • In our journey towards making Temtem a welcoming place for everyone, we discovered not all languages are equally prepared for gender neutral speech, and we hit a wall on German and French.

  • Despite all our research, we were unable to find the right gender-neutral choice in those languages, so German & French came out without it.

  • Since then, you guys have let us know it is indeed possible, so it's time we fix it. And we want to heed YOUR advice on the matter.

  • So, German and French tamers, LGTBI and NB peeps, we would like to hear you: which gender neutral pronouns would work best in Temtem? Which option do you feel comfortable with? What's the right choice to include such a diverse group?

  • What resources would you recommend for us to educate ourselves in this question?

  • Please help point us in the right direction so Temtem can continue improving and being a place where everyone feels seen and included

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over 4 years ago - /u/ItsTsukki - Direct link

Originally posted by Sir_Jacuzzi

Hi!Regarding french, "iel" (contraction of "il" (he) and "elle" (she)) is the best equivalent for "they" even though it isn't official.(there's also ille, ielle, yel... but iel is the most common)

Something else to take in consideration is the agreement.

In french we have a rule which is that the masculine form takes precedence over the feminine form.

In brief, if we have a masculine and feminine subject (or neutral) we will always use the masculine form.

Here is an example: "Friends" in French is ("Amis" masculine-plural & "Amies" feminine-plural)

If we want to translate "This boy and this girl are my friends" with this rule it will be :

"Ce garçon et cette fille sont mes amis"

As you can see we used the masculine-plural form even though there's also "this

girl" as the subject.

By the way, this rule has been invented around the XVIIe century because they felt like the masculine form being superior to the feminine form was logical and natural. This was only another way through lingustics to support male domination.

Before that we had another rule called "the rule of proximity"

The agreement depends on the gender of the last subject.

With this rule, the translation for the same sentence will be:

"Ce garçon et cette fille sont mes amies" (We use the feminine form because "fille" (girl) is after "garçon" (boy))

Other possibility : using a gender-neutral/gender-inclusive language (called écriture épicène/écriture inclusive)

With the use of the middot « · » you can write the feminine and masculine form at the same time in order to be neutral.

masculine form : amis
feminine form : amies
neutral form : ami·e·s

The translation will be :

"Ce garçon et cette fille sont mes ami·e·s"

This is also not really "official" but used frequently in order to be inclusive.

Other possibility is by using neutral nouns in the translation.

Just like in english instead of "Goodmorning Ladies and Gentlemen" you can say "Goodmorning Everyone" in order to be neutral and include everybody.

In my example I translate "friends" to "ami·e·s" but just like in english you could replace that with "buddy, mate ect.."

In french we have alternatives that are neutral where their feminine form and masculine form are identical (camarades, potes...)

So we could say : "Ce garçon et cette fille sont mes camarades"

I believe that the best solution would be to try to use neutral terms in order for the translation to be suitable for eveyone. If a gender neutral pronoun is necessary the use of "iel" might be the most suitable.

Try using the rule of proximity instead of the rule "masculine > feminine" and use the gender-inclusive language if no neutral alernatives have been found!

I have multiple article regarding gender-inclusive language and the rule of proximity in French (sadly I didn't found one in english yet but the last link has a PDF in english explaining how to use the gender-inclusive language)

https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/alpheratz/sexisme-francais-egalitaire-hommes-femmes_b_12086632.html

http://www.audreyalwett.com/auteur-auteure-ou-autrice/

https://usbeketrica.com/article/feminin-masculin-langue-francaise

https://www.ecriture-inclusive.fr/

I hope this helps! ^^

Super helpful, thanks a lot!!!