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NextdoorMMR



05 Apr

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by maritimelight

Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure how much you are able to communicate with that team, but if it's possible to encourage them to give players an update regarding their efforts, like you have here, I think the player-base would appreciate it. There doesn't seem to be anything at all in place regarding player behavior except for some threadbare automatic AFK & chat detectors.

A question that is definitely up your alley: Have similar changes to allowed skill range in Matchmaking been applied to unranked, or is this only a ranked change?

Only Ranked since there's no Ranks in Unranked. Unranked uses its own MMR since people treat it differently.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by EmbarrassedHour9

I would like to quote your own words, keep in mind you've told others the same: Note the exception when it comes to premades. Outside of that exception, we see zero fully solo queue matches with Master+ players that have anything but Master+ in them in our data since the change.

This heavily implies a huge contradiction, either you're looking at gold+ pre-made only or master+ pre-made only. Even so you're still ignoring other programs facing rank this season.

This change overall impacts well over 90% of the players.

I would like it if you could provide the data for this claim. As a Riot official a claiming like this, especially when contradicting yourself and other players experience, it would be of significant help to see that data and figure out why it feels and seems the opposite. Sorry if this comes out offensive or anything like that as that's not my intention, just there's too many contradictions.

If you read my previous comments in this thread in their entirety you will see there is no contradiction.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by EmbarrassedHour9

But you're ignoring not only a huge chunk of the playerbase by looking only at Master+, by your own admission you're ignoring the actual problems of pre-made teams. That fix doesn't do or mean anything since there's almost no true full 5 solo vs 5 solo. You guys need to actually look at the entire data and playerbase and not just a percentage less then 1%

This change affects Gold+ as stated in the details. It also affects all those premades as well, acting directly on the average rank.

This change overall impacts well over 90% of the players.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by maritimelight

While it is not strictly related to MMR, I would like to know about AFK & Int detecting, as well as player reports. I have been matched with the same AFK or inting players in short succession, making it clear that they are being allowed back in queue. What is the matchmaking team doing about player behavior / reports?

We actually have a separate team specifically for player behavior and they are actively working on those issues.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by elshabwalaa

It will be great if dia 1 can be with master q, coz u can already pre made with dia 1/2 as master player, and i think this will make q faster and dia1/2 players can compete well enough with master elo from my experience.

See my comment on smoothing above.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by EmbarrassedHour9

Uh how long ago was this implemented exactly? I've still had many game with Grand Masters, Master, Diamond and Emerald all in the same game. Back in Emerald less then a week ago I encountered Challenger players. Most games I get stuck with one side going party of 3 and sometimes also duo and my team is all solo and on the other hand I'm in a game with a team of 3, 2 solo including me against a entire solo team.

This went live late last Tuesday PDT time. Note the exception when it comes to premades. Outside of that exception, we see zero fully solo queue matches with Master+ players that have anything but Master+ in them in our data since the change.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by gheycub

Thanks for the update, personally I feel this has been an overall very positive change and a move in the right direction. My matches have consistently been of a higher quality and fairness this season because I can count on my teammates and opponents being of a similar skill level (I don’t mind the longer queue times). I understand the argument devs have made is that MMR is a better predictor of match performance, however I’ve always felt that the “plays above their rank badge” didn’t account for things such as micro/macro gameplay mechanics and knowledge that is acquired over time. For example, I had previously felt that someone with incredible micro/reaction times would bounce around from low to high elo with that “badge” because it’s easy to carry with good micro against lower skilled players, but they will end up feeding against higher skilled players with good macro. I feel that if these players are forced to build upon their macro skills via grinding ranks, overall match ...

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First, to clear something up about MMR: the matchmaker is allowed to dynamically increase the allowed MMR gap over time to make sure a match can be made. It can't do this with the Rank gaps. So in cases where you have a player not performing well, in the data, it is consistently because the matchmaker actually lowered the MMR bar in order to make a match happen. So it's actually not MMR matchmaking that's hurting you, it's a lack of MMR matching. This change is indeed a way to balance a hard requirement (rank) with the soft one (MMR).

  • We do consistently monitor queue times and also project them before doing changes, though it's not something we generally release since it's a lot of info. In general, queue times have not been hugely impacted by this change, except for Master+, and there, mostly only early season. As the season progressions their times will get better, though will stay longer than previous seasons.
  • The reason we get longer wait times for Mast...
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Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by gheycub

Can you expand upon how these changes will affect solo queue players? For example, if I am to understand these new regulations correctly a solo queue Emerald player should expect to now match with platinums, diamonds, or other emeralds. However, if a duo queue premade consists of a gold and a platinum, but there average is platinum, will they still be allowed to match with a solo queue emerald?

Yes, a high-Gold in a duo with a high-Plat will likely average to a Plat party. If an Emerald player is unable to find 4 other Emeralds, they can pull in a Plat party, which would include this duo. It wouldn't be the matchmaker's first choice, but it is allowable since Plat is only 1 step from Emerald.

But you won't see things like, a Plat pulling in a solo queue gold AND a solo queue Emerald anymore.

In addition, Gold/Plat duos do play better than their average would account for pretty consistently in the data, so you usually aren't going to be hurt in this combo.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by ApprehensiveWin1230

Is there any plan to remove the "above rank" badge for ranks over gold? I am yet to see a platinum ranked person perform even at the level of most emerald players when they get that badge, and they are generally against diamond players. Even though there isnt much of a difference across the ranks, there is a definite, noticeable difference between diamond and platinum for the vast majority of players.

If nothing else, is there plans to adjust it so that only platinum 1 can be in the pool of higher ranks?

Right now, Plat players can not match with Diamond players outside of being in a premade party where the party's average is at least Emerald.

A solo queuing Plat can't match with solo queuing Diamonds with this change.

You should see the "above rank" badge a lot less often if you are Plat+.

In general, gaps are chosen by looking at how wide they have to go to prevent unreasonably long wait times.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by Crapahedron

What are the rules for Solo Q and premades? If someone's in Solo Q is EVERY PLAYER in that match also a solo q? Or are duo/trio allowed? Just looking for clarity on grouping.

Thanks!

Matches are always mirrored. If you get a duo on the other team, you will also have one on yours. Both sides always have the same type of premades. 5s only play 5s (5s actually currently use a completely different matchmaker).

By the way, there aren't enough trios to only match duos and trios together. Duos wouldn't find matches without solos.


04 Apr

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Originally posted by ApprehensiveWin1230

Is this now, or how it will be updated to? Because I'm emerald, and yesterday I was getting golds and masters in my teams (not at the same time, separate matches)

It is live now. If a Master parties with a Diamond, they will be matched as their average rank which can be Diamond. As an Emerald, you can match parties with an average rank of Diamond. Likewise, a Plat with a Gold can average Plat, which can also match with Emerald. Which is why the tweet says exceptions will happen with premades.

Dev Update Regarding which Ranks can be Matched with Eachother

Comment

Thanks for posting this! I'm Josh Menke and I wanted to say feel free to ask questions or leave additional feedback on this change here and I'll read through them and answer ones I can.


30 Mar

High Elo queue times

Comment

My guess without checking your data specifically is that it's early in the season still and there aren't a lot of high-ranked players around your rank to match with available yet. If that's the case, it'll go away as more players climb up closer to your rank.


24 Feb

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by ICE_2

Hi, will there be protection when playing with someone afk before 5min mark while soloQ? Because 4v5 whole game happens sometimes and it’s bad.

We are working on remake right now, though we don't have an ETA atm. But, yesh, we are working on improvements to this part of the experience for sure.

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by Brief_Donkey4486

Ah okay. I get it then.

True match climbing is what they used in first person shooters like R6. No mmr, no skill based match making. You have a rank and you get matched with people from your rank or slightly below/above.

It does not put good players with bad players on purpose or good vs good. If its random people will can only keep their rank by learning to carry. That way the skill gap is not that big and if it is, they win games and rank up.

All these play above their rank badges for gold to play w em. Mmr to balance a match out. It is not organic. That is not true rank climbing. I went on an 11 winning spree w mostly MVP's and the only thing my mmr did for me is having to beat emerald players while being plat, to having to beat emerald players aaaaagain in emerald.

So the general problem with that approach is that it results in lots of extra losses as players working their way up stomp on those below them. Those extra losses result in those players churning out faster. Instead most systems focus in making sure both teams have the same shot at winning.

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by Brief_Donkey4486

Does this mean that premade 5 v 5 was always random? Only paired by rank.

Does this mean that my games are not designed to be random but to go against a team with my mmr.

Does this mean that the system just matches mmr split by? So people with high wr are paired w low wr to keep it balanced?

I wonder why premade had a true rank climbing but solo queue does not have organic mm.

All matches, including 5v5, are matched using MMR and rank. 5s just allowed a larger gap since otherwise matches can't be found. But none of them are random.

I'm not sure what you mean by true rank climbing. High rank 5-stacks aren't climbing because of skill, they are climbing because the current system gives too much VP for matches that are too easy. The solution is to either prevent easy matches (temp) or significantly decrease the VP gains (potential future change).

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by Niante

Thanks for your time and communication. I just want to say that as a pretty much exclusively solo player, it really, really sucks to be matched against anything other than other solo players. I don't care about their gains at all. I care about fun and relatively fair ranked matches.

Keep in mind that in order to allow duo players at all, we have to match solo players with duos to make a 5v5.

But party match ups are currently always mirrored in ranked. If there's a duo on the other team, then there will always be one on yours as well. If there are two duos on the other team, yours will also have two duos.


23 Feb

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by flakey-crust

Diamond/master will have a lower skill requirement, as they are making it easier to rank up.

For example, the people at a skill level of "high emerald" will now have a skill level of "mid diamond" of course I don't know exactly how they will balance it.

Basically more people will be diamond/master, so instead of complaining about your teammates being way lower rank, you will get to complain about your equal rank teammates way lower skill

To give a little more background here as well, we are really just fixing the backend to better match what is happening on the front end. We are getting plenty of solid players getting into Diamond and Masters that we shouldn't just kick out with -10/+15 gains, and we should just allow them to stick around if they can maintain at least 50%.

This helps to balance that back out, and the back end backs off a little in terms of forcing people out of these tiers while we observe actual player skill dynamics.

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by cha0z_

I am pretty sure you know what the win rates are for those abusers - how exactly you will balance that absurd win rate via VP gains restrictions without going bonkers about it like +1/-10? Also how this will fix trioq abuse? Do you also realize how many use discord to sh*t on teams not using voice comms?

Also how exactly is fair to put me as soloq high diamond/master player into hard stuck for over a year emeralds trioq to "compensate" for the enemy GM/GM/CHAL trioq LAST F SEASON with the banner to prove it and even now already master/GM? You are trolling me, literally. This sh*t happens all the time or you think we are that d*mb that we can't go into each player profile and see what happened and how the match was "fixed"?

Remove pre in ranked, there are enough ways to play with friends - PVP, URF, ARAM, CUSTOM games for scrims. There is a reason why in PC league soloq plays only with soloq, if you delude yourself this is a casual game for friends - all my friends p...

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We don't have anything to announce specifically on the 3.2 solution, however if your VP gains are so tiny (or even 0 when necessary) when you 3q/5q that it's way faster to rank up solo/duo, then players won't 3q/5q unless they really are doing it to play with friends. This will likely result in the amount of 3q/5q groups decreasing back down to the background noise amount we had in S3 when we also allowed premades, but it wasn't a big deal.

Changes Coming to High-Skilled Ranked Play

Comment

Originally posted by wraithkenny

That’s what they are talking about in the 3rd to last paragraph.

If you read the next paragraph after you will see:

  • To ensure that teams who want to play together competitively can still do so, we will likely not restrict premade teams outright, but instead alter their VP gains.