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Hey Reav3, is the roadmap being published this week?
No
will we get more information about the sentinel of light? i want to know what position you are targeting them for.
also what do you think about a vgu for tryndamere? is it possible to happen or there are a lot of champions before him?
He needs one someday for sure. I almost put him on the last vote. It's always possible though I can't say when. Yeah I will talk a lot more about the mage and marksmen and go into specifically what lane they are for.
HI Reav,What's the status of Mundo now? I thought you said he would be released after Gwen :)
He's still planned as the next release. I'll give a update on him in the Champion Roadmap coming shortly after Gwens release
Based on these datas, I see Shaco pretty high in breadth and depth, especially in depth, yet his name keeps popping up in VGU tier lists; what kind of size would you aim for him, since I assume he is up for bigger work than a Morgana/Ezreal? From dev points, what are the biggest cautions regarding a project such as him?
Yeah he is super deep. I think we would be looking at doing something more like Pantheon/Mundo where we freshen up his kit ,but mostly focus on upgrading his visuals.
Hi Reav3!
Could you show how Yasuo is doing? I heard his popularity has dropped recently, though on the graphs you posted it seems he's still the rightmost champ?
Also, is that chart available online? I remember there was one in the article from a few years ago, and I always found it very interesting, I'd love to have an updated table available :)
Here u go.
He has been lower ever since Yone released, but not that much lower. Him and Kai'Sa usually compete for #1 and #2 highest playrate
Thanks! Confirms my prediction that humanoids are reasonably popular but not super. Could I ask if you know why champ depth is more compressed this patch since I noticed that most champs are closer to middle line compared to past charts
Its just because it early in the patch. Depth measures how many times people play the same champ in a row on the same patch, so it goes up overtime as the patch goes on
Read moreI don't think thats true? Jungle was perhaps the role that always had broadly appealing humans in the role, Elise, Lee Sin, Xin Zhao-ish (Not sure how long he was a jungler), Master Yi, and so on. And for that matter, there have been very few, if any, appealing humans added to jungle recently. We have Viego, and before that the last one was Kayn, I think? Who was released ... 4 years ago. Wow that long?
So if Khas popularity has decreased, which Im not even sure it has, I think he is more popular now than he has been in a long time, it had nothing to do with more humans being added. Hell, Lee Sins play rate has dropped significantly (from 30-40% to only 12%) ever since more non-humans were added to the jungle, I don't think its possible to draw a direct conclusion from that.
Its possible, but I'm not convinced that would happen. In fact, I imagine the opposite would happen, a new monster ADC could become popular just by virtue of being something new and entirely di...
For sure, Creature Marksmen is definitely something we want to do at some point in the future, for the exact reason
Hey Reav3 could I bother you for some breadth and depths of some humanoids like Volibear or Aatrox (dealer’s choice) since the commitment you guys made towards doing more humanoids has me curious since I’ve always guessed that that pack was always middle of the road in terms of popularity
Every time you post these I hurt my eyes to find Vlad and I fail, secretly hoping you publish the official graph again at some point
here u go
Ah, I see, you're basing it on the number of unique players, that makes sense. That probably gives a better idea of popularity.
But Lee Sin is explicitely an extreme outlier, not the rule. If I read the chart correctly, at the very end you see at least 5 Marksmen, as opposed to the one bruiser in Lee Sin. And Yasuo is an Assassin, another low saturation role that creatures don't tend to be used for (And the one creature assassin we do have, Kha'Zix, is quite very popular indeed). So on average the hypothesis that creatures are unpopular by virtue of being in on average significantly less popular roles seems quite plausible.
Maybe, I would say that Kha is popular because the role has less saturation, but he has become less popular overtime as we have added more broadly appealing humans to the role. So you could assume that if a role liek Marksmen already had a good deal of broadly appealing human that a monster/creature would be less popular if added to the role, since it has tougher competition. Like if jungle has many more champs like Ahri/Lux/Yasuo, etc would that push Kha out more? Not sure
Yeah, they put Lillia into humanoid but Kindred into creature...seems like they are confused
Its mostly because of Wolf. Kindred was hard to classify, if it was lamb alone I would say humanoid, but wolf is clearly a creature, so since Lamb is pretty close to a creature I figured she was like 75% creature 25% humanoid and went with creature. It was a tough call though for sure
Ah, that is a good point, I don't think I included blind pick. Also, its still the most popular queue? Interesting.
That being said I don't entirely agree with the floor or ceiling aspect, because, for example, Cho'Gath fluctuated wildly based on just being underpowered, or good, without ever reaching either end. It seems likely that the floor and ceiling can stretch very far.
Though, I assume even in blind pick, the matter of different roles still affects the playrate, i.e. a bruiser will have less playrate just because there are something like 40 of them, vs marksmen which have half as many champions available. Or whatever the actual numbers are.
Yes the bubble in pretty big, but it 100% exits. You can see in the Breadth/Depth charts that show a champions B/D over MANY years. Here is Cho'Gath for, example
As you can see his playrate usually remains around the same circular area, with variance based on how strong his is in a given patch. Here is Teemo
Read moreUnless your internal data is seriously off from what we have available, the difference in play rate between humans and creatures is low (1.5% on average), and humanoids and creatures have the exact same playrate on average (5.75%). So, why are creatures being made a lot less, if they actually arent less popular and dont have a smaller audience?
Ontop of that, do you also include such aspects as "how good are the champions in the category on average" (Kog'Maw for example has been underpowered for a long time now), as well as "how saturated is their class on average" (Creatures tend to be mostly tanks and bruisers, which have on average lower pick rate just due to being overrepresented, while humans lean more into the smaller pools of ADCs and supprts)?
Yes we look at a character target playrate range, which covers the range of playrate from underpowerd up to overpowered. We see that unless a champ is grossly OP or grossly UP they usually have a pretty clear floor and ceiling based on being strong or weaker. Are u looking at ALL playrate, including blind pick (or most popular Queue) or are u looking at ranked only? I ask because in ranked theme matters less and power matters more (and the higher up you go in rank the more power matters and the less theme matters) Where as in blind pick theme seems to be the main driving point for what people play.
Hope to see some of the concept art Zeronis did for her before he left as well as lonewingy help and an insight to that in the champion insight.
I admit not what I was expecting as Zeronis last design champ + eve/Qiyana designer help, but I do like her overall design even if I do wish it was different.
We will have some of Zeronis's older art in the insights, don't worry. I'm a fan of his as well, but I wanted to challenge him to do something a bit different on this champ (Even if it's still in his general camp)
As a disclaimer I do like her design, I think the gothic lolita sort of style is one that League does not yet have. However, my main... "gripe" is that of her not appearing to be more doll-like. Your explanation definitely makes sense, but it doesn't excuse Riot's decision to make it so. From what I can tell, there's no valid reasoning to decide on her being a transformed doll over an animated one. Other than to make her more cute and human like, which makes her more attractive and possibly sell better, at the expense of making her less unique and less distinctive to the game overall.
We talked about this A LOT internally and we had some early versions where she was more of a animated doll. The main reason we pivoted to the transformed doll approach was to separate her more from Shaco, as well as Oriana. So rather then having 2 animated dolls and a automaton, we have a automaton, and animated doll and a transformed doll (like Pinocchio)
Is this really wise? I mean, someone asking for more champions like Yuumi and someone asking for more champions like Rek'Sai are probably wanting two very different things.
Is what wise? I'm just saying what would be considered a creature. You can say that for any category (Someone that likes Aatoxx is probably different then someone that likes Lillia, or someone that likes Yone/Zed is different then someone that likes Zoe/Lux) I'm aware Yuumi and Rek'Sai are a different audience. Once of the reasons we made Yuumi was that we felt that game was lacking cute creatures, not because we were trying to appeal to the monstrous creature crowd.
As someone who loves the monster champs and has been really frustrated by the last several years of releases I'm hoping there's one thing you can answer: Do "new" releases count reworks? Because as cool as the Voli and Fiddles reworks are, they were, or so I've read, considered part of the "new" monster champs for that year.
Is this the case? And if it is...could it not?
When I said new a meant a new champ, not a VGU
Would this have an effect on who gets the second 2022 VGU slot? Last year you said VGUs still totally count at how you look at the upcoming years roster, or has it changed like the categories to Human, Humanoid and Creature?
While VGUs do count, I think at this point, regardless of VGUs, it's been to long since we did a NEW creature champ (Yuumi being the last one)